i just want to echo what red and andy have both said.and in case anyone is wondering,all of my acid loving fish are quite healthy and well colored and my water is a ph of 7.8 gh 18 dgh(sorry i can't remember the ppm conversion at the moment)and a kh of 8 oh and did i mention i have blue rams and neons.so there you have it.all of these different people have had sucsess with acid loving fish in hard water.whats the secret: water changes.