Well, I guess you have a point Soulfish. In my mind anything man does is natural, even the bad things because that is what makes us human. Just look at the killing of sperm whales and elephants in our recent history. They came close to extinction. I my eyes, that would have been natural. Although we didn't kill them for mainly food, we killed them for a purpose (ivory, oil, ect...), to suit our changing needs and life styles.
Local pond closed because of aquarium fish dumping
- Thread starter fishRmylife
- Start date
i guess it's really a matter of interpretation. i mean who is to say that killing elephants for ivory isn't natural? who is to say that these elephants weren't put on the earth to give humans ivory? i can certainly see that side of it.
personally, i don't agree with killing an animal (to the point of extinction) for some luxury. i think leather jackets are nice. i even own one. but i don't think we should make cows extinct for leather. or any other animal for that matter.
soulfish, yo mama likes the "fish in" cycle.
personally, i don't agree with killing an animal (to the point of extinction) for some luxury. i think leather jackets are nice. i even own one. but i don't think we should make cows extinct for leather. or any other animal for that matter.
soulfish, yo mama likes the "fish in" cycle.
What i believe is
"dont touch wut u dont knoe"
"Leave things how they should be"
"if something is meant to happen den ish gonna happen"
Yall fighting ova something dat is meant to happened. Obiviously it's meant to happened dat's why no one could have prevent it in the first freakin place so just chill. I think dat is pretty stupid. Instead of fighting why not get ur voices ,ur opinions out there. Tell pplz wut's wrong about dumping fishes into lakes,rivers,streams or wuteva. Get ur words and voices out there to those dat really matters those dat should be listening. There's alwayz those stupid few who will ruins things for everyone. Tell them is stupid to dump fishes into place they dont belong. Tell the stupid fews not those of us who are already educated about it. United u'll stand and seperated you'll fell. So take my words and stop fighting and get ur words out there to those pplz who matters.
Peace out
Keep it real yall
"dont touch wut u dont knoe"
"Leave things how they should be"
"if something is meant to happen den ish gonna happen"
Yall fighting ova something dat is meant to happened. Obiviously it's meant to happened dat's why no one could have prevent it in the first freakin place so just chill. I think dat is pretty stupid. Instead of fighting why not get ur voices ,ur opinions out there. Tell pplz wut's wrong about dumping fishes into lakes,rivers,streams or wuteva. Get ur words and voices out there to those dat really matters those dat should be listening. There's alwayz those stupid few who will ruins things for everyone. Tell them is stupid to dump fishes into place they dont belong. Tell the stupid fews not those of us who are already educated about it. United u'll stand and seperated you'll fell. So take my words and stop fighting and get ur words out there to those pplz who matters.
Peace out
Keep it real yall
Um...I have a question. Why would you drain the poind? It seems way to costly and an expensive problem to do that. If you drain the pond you can cause detrimental effects on the rest of the ecosystem. I know that in Maryland where a foreign species of fish (Snakeheads) were introduced. They just fenced off the area and then dumped a toxin in the water that eliminated all the oxygen from the water, killing off all the forms of life in the pond that depended on oxygen. The poison had a really short halflife and was completely out of the system within days, but not before killing off the snakehead population.
Although this did not stop the spread (Due to their ability to travel on land) it did limit the spread and "clean up" one pond. The pond was then ready for restocking within a matter of days. So instead of draining the whole pond and then filling it (With what might I add?) why dont they just use a chemical like I listed above?
Although this did not stop the spread (Due to their ability to travel on land) it did limit the spread and "clean up" one pond. The pond was then ready for restocking within a matter of days. So instead of draining the whole pond and then filling it (With what might I add?) why dont they just use a chemical like I listed above?
This is a pretty fascinating read.
As careful as I try to be with my (new) fish, sometimes I wonder -- is it wrong that I even have them? I mean, it isn't really natural to take them from a river in Brazil, carton them up, and send them here, where I put them in a tank.
Now, in many cases, we give them great environments -- sometimes even better and less hazardous than their natural environment.
So then what's natural? My natural, or theirs? Uncutbulldog, your posts were interesting on this note...(by the way, if everything is natural, than Hitler et al is natural, and if you follow the logic that "everything man does is natural" for a little bit, you will quickly see that issues like "personal responsibility" and "for the greater good" quickly go out the window -- which is a bad thing).
Regarding the fish dumping -- imagine a world in which humans are the less dominant species. Say, the Urps are in charge. What if an Urp bought you and moved you to Antarctica, and kept you in a nice, warm igloo? Then, what if you outgrew the igloo, and the Urp decided to take you out to the -60 F tundra and leave you there.
Would that be natural? Would the Urps say, "Well, humans should be allowed to be wherever -- it's natural?"
And even if it WERE natural -- how would it feel to be you, out on the tundra?
As careful as I try to be with my (new) fish, sometimes I wonder -- is it wrong that I even have them? I mean, it isn't really natural to take them from a river in Brazil, carton them up, and send them here, where I put them in a tank.
Now, in many cases, we give them great environments -- sometimes even better and less hazardous than their natural environment.
So then what's natural? My natural, or theirs? Uncutbulldog, your posts were interesting on this note...(by the way, if everything is natural, than Hitler et al is natural, and if you follow the logic that "everything man does is natural" for a little bit, you will quickly see that issues like "personal responsibility" and "for the greater good" quickly go out the window -- which is a bad thing).
Regarding the fish dumping -- imagine a world in which humans are the less dominant species. Say, the Urps are in charge. What if an Urp bought you and moved you to Antarctica, and kept you in a nice, warm igloo? Then, what if you outgrew the igloo, and the Urp decided to take you out to the -60 F tundra and leave you there.
Would that be natural? Would the Urps say, "Well, humans should be allowed to be wherever -- it's natural?"
And even if it WERE natural -- how would it feel to be you, out on the tundra?
The pond which is now infested with oscars was home to bass, sunfish, catfish, and carp, I actually caught myself a nice size koi, boy was I surprised, I took him home and sold it to a friend. They are letting the pond evaporate naturally, and the land has been sold to a housing development, so pretty soon it's all gonna be houses. The oscars being caught from about 6" all the way up to 12"!!!!! I never had a chance to cath any of the little guys, I wonder if they are a good fighter on the end of a pole??
A little late, but I'll toss in my 2 cents worth.
Some of you miss the point. Let me tell you why it is not ok to introduce fish into foreign waters. Before humans, nature was in balance. We come along and screw it up. It's a shame were at the top of the food chain. With power comes responsibility on a larger scale, and humans haven't learned it.
We think only of ourselves when we dump our aquarium fish into various territories without a thought more of our fish as we walk away. All living creatures have a will to survive, and they will do the best they can. Enter the next selfish person dumping their aquarium fish onto the same body of water. What, did they think they were the only person to do such a thing? I bet some never thought they would ever be struck by lighting twice! Shit happens.
I also find it ironic that we can't bring ourselves to euthanize our own fish, but as long as we "dump" the responsibility on others, in this case another species of fish, it's a-ok. Well, who is the responsible party after all? The first domino was pushed by someone. Out of sight, out of mind, eh?
Ok, that's all.
Some of you miss the point. Let me tell you why it is not ok to introduce fish into foreign waters. Before humans, nature was in balance. We come along and screw it up. It's a shame were at the top of the food chain. With power comes responsibility on a larger scale, and humans haven't learned it.
We think only of ourselves when we dump our aquarium fish into various territories without a thought more of our fish as we walk away. All living creatures have a will to survive, and they will do the best they can. Enter the next selfish person dumping their aquarium fish onto the same body of water. What, did they think they were the only person to do such a thing? I bet some never thought they would ever be struck by lighting twice! Shit happens.
I also find it ironic that we can't bring ourselves to euthanize our own fish, but as long as we "dump" the responsibility on others, in this case another species of fish, it's a-ok. Well, who is the responsible party after all? The first domino was pushed by someone. Out of sight, out of mind, eh?
Ok, that's all.
just kill all the human's and let the fishes be. Obviously this is a two sided issue and both side can be paritially right. If you really think about it, with out addicts like us, exotic fish wouldn't even be remove from the natural enviroment and shipped to lfs. Hey, but we got to have our fun, before we ruins the planet, right?
=)
=)
I would disagree, I don't think both sides are right, or partially right.
If you introduce non native species into an environment, you will upset the balance of that ecosystem. And I can guarantee it wont be for the better. Whether its because the fish predate the native fish, or because they out compete the native fish for their food source. Same result.
Here's a link you guys might find interesting http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/travel/Gussie_snow_fish.html
How natural do you think it is for there to be tropical fish in a hot springs in the canadian rockies? Do you think they're better off living in a H2S (hydrogen Sulfide) rich environment? Do some research on H2S and its effects on humans sometime; I get lectured about it regularly because I work in the presence of it... Not nice stuff.
Andy
If you introduce non native species into an environment, you will upset the balance of that ecosystem. And I can guarantee it wont be for the better. Whether its because the fish predate the native fish, or because they out compete the native fish for their food source. Same result.
Here's a link you guys might find interesting http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/travel/Gussie_snow_fish.html
How natural do you think it is for there to be tropical fish in a hot springs in the canadian rockies? Do you think they're better off living in a H2S (hydrogen Sulfide) rich environment? Do some research on H2S and its effects on humans sometime; I get lectured about it regularly because I work in the presence of it... Not nice stuff.
Andy
I'm not eve sure where to start. Well, for one thing, nature cancels itself out. Humans on this planet, in all the different eco systems, is natural and I don't know how many species went extinct because we became dominant. Nature made humans this way, it made us smart and it caused us to create cultures in which we need to be amused, thus, the whole fish thing along with some causes of polution. We're animals, too, and we have a will to survive and that's what we've done.
I once saw an interesting video in Biology involving this. It was about evolution and what we consider "consious" minds such as ours. It suggested that perhaps, by nature, we are able to rule over all the other animals but we also have the ability to look back on what made us this way. Both of these things could be considered nature's way of telling us to be more responsible about what we do to the environment. Now there's the whole dumping fish thing. Personally, i don't think it's fair to the other creatures that were put in the pond by nature to introduce any type of foreign fish to their eco system. Yeah, I know, nature isn't exactly fair but, have you seen the remains of those wooly mammoths? They had a good, fighting chance but, alas, natural selection and evolution...
I really wish they were still alive, though. They looked pretty cool.
I once saw an interesting video in Biology involving this. It was about evolution and what we consider "consious" minds such as ours. It suggested that perhaps, by nature, we are able to rule over all the other animals but we also have the ability to look back on what made us this way. Both of these things could be considered nature's way of telling us to be more responsible about what we do to the environment. Now there's the whole dumping fish thing. Personally, i don't think it's fair to the other creatures that were put in the pond by nature to introduce any type of foreign fish to their eco system. Yeah, I know, nature isn't exactly fair but, have you seen the remains of those wooly mammoths? They had a good, fighting chance but, alas, natural selection and evolution...
I really wish they were still alive, though. They looked pretty cool.
In my opinion.....
This is the bottom line, people are ignorant. I believe that as a world, we need to realize the preservation of this world as well as self preservation. We shouldn't be going into peoples ponds and dumping fish that we didn't know squat about when we bought them. Or wiping away the rainforests, letting our factories puff toxic smoke all day, or disrupting nature. Man's actions aren't natural, unless fate is to self destruct. I am not a tree hugger, but I know WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND. I think keeping pets is alright. If they are domesticated and bred and given to good people who can give them a good home without being ignorent, then by all means, keeping pets is okay. But when an ignorant family buys a backyard bred pet that has stinky crap coming from his ear and they don't know when to take him to get checked, then it has gotten outta hand. But, until I'm president, can't do nothing about the pets being traded and sold across America without discretion, I can't do nothing but my part and at least inform others. And If the fish are fine and the ponds ecosystem fine, then let the fish be; I should write a letter to that pond's manager too, cause I love oscars.....
Just my opinion though
This is the bottom line, people are ignorant. I believe that as a world, we need to realize the preservation of this world as well as self preservation. We shouldn't be going into peoples ponds and dumping fish that we didn't know squat about when we bought them. Or wiping away the rainforests, letting our factories puff toxic smoke all day, or disrupting nature. Man's actions aren't natural, unless fate is to self destruct. I am not a tree hugger, but I know WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND. I think keeping pets is alright. If they are domesticated and bred and given to good people who can give them a good home without being ignorent, then by all means, keeping pets is okay. But when an ignorant family buys a backyard bred pet that has stinky crap coming from his ear and they don't know when to take him to get checked, then it has gotten outta hand. But, until I'm president, can't do nothing about the pets being traded and sold across America without discretion, I can't do nothing but my part and at least inform others. And If the fish are fine and the ponds ecosystem fine, then let the fish be; I should write a letter to that pond's manager too, cause I love oscars.....
Just my opinion though
why not make an analogy with another animal, because in a way it is hard to think of fishes as being "domesticated pets" in the same way that birds, hamsters, dogs, cats are...
would it be okie to dump a puppy or a kitty in a forest when you can't take care of them anymore?...
would it be "natural selection" if they then got mauled by a mountain lion?...somehow i dont think so.
barring whether its "natural" or ok to dump exotic or pet fishes into ponds, i think its important for people to remember that when they adopt or purchase a pet they agree to be responsible and care for it. if a family can no longer keep their dog, they find a new home for him/her. i think the same courtesy should be extended to fish. sometimes dogs and cats must be euthanized, and its understood to be necessary at times. i think it would be better to euthanize an unwanted fish than to "give it to the wild", although ideally it would be better to find the fish a new home.
just my two cents...
would it be okie to dump a puppy or a kitty in a forest when you can't take care of them anymore?...
would it be "natural selection" if they then got mauled by a mountain lion?...somehow i dont think so.
barring whether its "natural" or ok to dump exotic or pet fishes into ponds, i think its important for people to remember that when they adopt or purchase a pet they agree to be responsible and care for it. if a family can no longer keep their dog, they find a new home for him/her. i think the same courtesy should be extended to fish. sometimes dogs and cats must be euthanized, and its understood to be necessary at times. i think it would be better to euthanize an unwanted fish than to "give it to the wild", although ideally it would be better to find the fish a new home.
just my two cents...
My parents live in the foothills outside of Denver, CO. They have an abundance of wildlife...and I grew up there, its a gorgeous place. The one animal that they don't like is the "red squirrel". Everyone who comes up from town goes "oh its just a squirrel...these are the mountains...squirrels belong here, why don't you like them?" The red squirrels have been transplanted from the city. Well meaning citizens over time, live trapped and released the animals into the mountains "where they belong."
Well...since the red squirrels aren't native to the mountains...over time, more and more red squirrels end up in the mountains and the natural gray and Abert squirrel populations have begun to dwindle. The red squirrels are more aggressive...more territorial...more destructive than any of the native squirrels...and these animals were only transplanted 50+ or so miles away from their natural habitat!!!
Well...since the red squirrels aren't native to the mountains...over time, more and more red squirrels end up in the mountains and the natural gray and Abert squirrel populations have begun to dwindle. The red squirrels are more aggressive...more territorial...more destructive than any of the native squirrels...and these animals were only transplanted 50+ or so miles away from their natural habitat!!!
Hmm...
Some scientists once were doing comparative studies between humans and animals.
The closest they came was to a virus.
Humans and viruses both have populations that increase in expodential manners (Most other wildlife populations cycle based on the "boom/bust" model of food availability).
Humans and viruses both weaken or destory that which on which they live.
Are humans just a virus on the organism of Earth?
How's that food for thought?
~~Colesea
Some scientists once were doing comparative studies between humans and animals.
The closest they came was to a virus.
Humans and viruses both have populations that increase in expodential manners (Most other wildlife populations cycle based on the "boom/bust" model of food availability).
Humans and viruses both weaken or destory that which on which they live.
Are humans just a virus on the organism of Earth?
How's that food for thought?
~~Colesea
I'm a bit sorry for the oscars in the pond, but they shouldn't be there in the first place. Although there are some success stories in introducing fish to control malaria carrying mosquitoes, usually it ends in ecodisaster for the fish and other lifeforms that are there. Lake Victoria is a good example.
For sure keeping an aquarium isnt natural, but it's given me agreater love for the natural world. There was a report last week that indicated the number of different species in the amazon basin was doubled from the previous estimate I don't reemember the exact number. Think how many differnet fish there are, all the different dwarf cichlids tetras, L nos and so on any of them might be your perfect aquarium fish.- I don't want that to be replaced with the 80 fish on the Walmart stock list.
'Well it's in a little pond , not the amazon , it doesn't matter' Well it does matter if it's the only available location for a killi or livebearer. I think things are pretty good as they are.
There's a list of fish that you can't keep in Britain without a license, and so the number of possible fish you can buy has dropped as who's going to bother getting a stock of fish noone can buy. Why is this - ponds overflow, and stupid aquarists. Invariably it will happen to you too, it's happened to snakeheads, piranhas and it will happen to others too.
For sure keeping an aquarium isnt natural, but it's given me agreater love for the natural world. There was a report last week that indicated the number of different species in the amazon basin was doubled from the previous estimate I don't reemember the exact number. Think how many differnet fish there are, all the different dwarf cichlids tetras, L nos and so on any of them might be your perfect aquarium fish.- I don't want that to be replaced with the 80 fish on the Walmart stock list.
'Well it's in a little pond , not the amazon , it doesn't matter' Well it does matter if it's the only available location for a killi or livebearer. I think things are pretty good as they are.
There's a list of fish that you can't keep in Britain without a license, and so the number of possible fish you can buy has dropped as who's going to bother getting a stock of fish noone can buy. Why is this - ponds overflow, and stupid aquarists. Invariably it will happen to you too, it's happened to snakeheads, piranhas and it will happen to others too.