Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!
- Thread starter SantaMonica
- Start date
Put the largest bulbs you have in. You are just seeing some adjustments of the algae as it grows. The first growth will not be what you end up with. Order bigger bulbs and put them in when you get them. In 7 days, you should have good growth. As long as the algae goes lights-off for a bit each night, it will eventually fill-in the bald spot.
Update Of The Day: Overflow GPH and Screen Width
If you are doing an overflow feed like this:
...then the overflow gallon per hour (U.S. gph) will determine how much flow you have to work with. You have to start from there, and size your screen accordingly. The maximum flow you'll get to the screen will be what's going through your overflow now. This is easy to figure out by counting how many seconds it takes your overflow to fill a one-gallon jug:
60 seconds = 60 gph
30 seconds = 120 gph
15 seconds = 240 gph
10 seconds = 360 gph
8 seconds = 450 gph
5 seconds = 720 gph
4 seconds = 900 gph
3 seconds = 1200 gph
Take this gph number that you end up with, and divide by 35, to get the number of inches wide the screen should be. For example, if your overflow was 240 gph, then divide this by 35 to get 6.8 (or just say 7) inches. So your screen should be 7 inches wide. Or you can use this chart:
Screen Width-----Gallons Per Hour (GPH)
1" 35
2" 70
3" 105
4" 140
5" 175
6" 210
7" 245
8" 280
9" 315
10" 350
11" 385
12" 420
13" 455
14" 490
15" 525
16" 560
17" 595
18" 630
19" 665
20" 700
21" 735
22" 770
23" 805
24" 840
25" 875
26" 910
27" 945
28" 980
29" 1015
30" 1050
How tall should the screen it be? That is determined by how much screen area you need, which is determined by how many gallons you have. Try to get one square inch of screen (lit both sides) for every gallon. If lit on only one side, double the screen area.
When finished, this is how you want your flow to look:
If you are doing an overflow feed like this:
...then the overflow gallon per hour (U.S. gph) will determine how much flow you have to work with. You have to start from there, and size your screen accordingly. The maximum flow you'll get to the screen will be what's going through your overflow now. This is easy to figure out by counting how many seconds it takes your overflow to fill a one-gallon jug:
60 seconds = 60 gph
30 seconds = 120 gph
15 seconds = 240 gph
10 seconds = 360 gph
8 seconds = 450 gph
5 seconds = 720 gph
4 seconds = 900 gph
3 seconds = 1200 gph
Take this gph number that you end up with, and divide by 35, to get the number of inches wide the screen should be. For example, if your overflow was 240 gph, then divide this by 35 to get 6.8 (or just say 7) inches. So your screen should be 7 inches wide. Or you can use this chart:
Screen Width-----Gallons Per Hour (GPH)
1" 35
2" 70
3" 105
4" 140
5" 175
6" 210
7" 245
8" 280
9" 315
10" 350
11" 385
12" 420
13" 455
14" 490
15" 525
16" 560
17" 595
18" 630
19" 665
20" 700
21" 735
22" 770
23" 805
24" 840
25" 875
26" 910
27" 945
28" 980
29" 1015
30" 1050
How tall should the screen it be? That is determined by how much screen area you need, which is determined by how many gallons you have. Try to get one square inch of screen (lit both sides) for every gallon. If lit on only one side, double the screen area.
When finished, this is how you want your flow to look:
No pics of day 5, I don't really see a need, growth was stunted visually but will continue over the weekend, running 100watts on each side now, I don't know that I had 6 hours off yesterday but it was a good length of time nontheless. I will be setting up tests tonight or tomorrow either way they will be in motion soon. One test I'm fairly anxious to do is using algae to filter tap water to see what all it will extract from the tap water by using the scrubber, tap water is commonly high in phosphates and metals such as copper. I know that the algae won't rid the water of metals such but it will be interesting to see what I can do, This could end up being a cheaper alternative to RO if this unit was hooked up to a RO canister with a sediment filter and double sided filter fiber. It would definately be effective enough to use for Freshwater tanks with reduced amounts of water conditioner and you would only need to suppliment the stress coats and so forth that you would normally use. I will be running the tests without water changes and one test I would love to run but will have to be later on is to see how much if any (which should be at least some) an algae scrubber will help cycle a brand new tank. But I don't want to detach my scrubber from my tank! hehehe.
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Here's a quick question, anyone on here know of a GOOD way to cut "eggcrate" light diffuser? I use my dremel and I can stand cutting that sh*t it's gotta be some of the most brittle substance on the planet. I always get shavings everywhere and some of them tend to melt into my carpet cuz it's easy to melt with a dremel. I just though I'd ask. OR if there is a softer "eggcrate" the stuff I got was from home depot and it's really brittle light diffuser and I was expecting it to be the same material as a milk crate. Guess not!
Actually it will. That was a surprise to me too. Algae is a very strong consumer of metals. All of them, I don't know, but many for sure. Is a good question for an advanced/chemistry forum.
Well the N, P, and ammonia from the cycle will certainly help the screen grow. Not sure about the screen helping the cycle. But neither harms the other.
Eggcrate: Use wire cutters; they snap right through it.
Well the N, P, and ammonia from the cycle will certainly help the screen grow. Not sure about the screen helping the cycle. But neither harms the other.
Eggcrate: Use wire cutters; they snap right through it.
Quotes Of The Day:
Eric Borneman: "What turfs are, essentially, are excellent nitrogen and phosphorus uptake species, with a number of benefits over many other species: faster growing, less invasive, more efficient and less toxic than macroalgae, much more efficient by fast growth than Xenia, and far more effective in most tanks than seagrasses (which require so much more light, sediments, symbiotic microbes, benthic nutrients, and space) or mangroves. The big benefit of turfs as nutrient uptake and export, if needed or desired (by removal of the turfs as they grow), is that they grow faster than macroalgae in biomass, are generally not producers of prolific secondary metabolites (their defense and competition is fast growth), and they are confined to a specific area and are thus not invasive. Even if some get released into the tank, they are very palatable and are a treat for herbivorous fishes and invertebrates. In fact, turfs are havens for copepods, amphipods, ostracods, and polychaetes, favoring their reproduction."
Tom Barr: "You might also suggest this to folks, you can prep this [scrubber] filter very easily by using a bucket and the pump and getting a good film of growth outside (if possible , near a window with direct sun light) on the screen prior to use in the aquarium; no waiting for it to get all furry. This is pre cycling for an algae scrubber. There is a little sloughing and adaptation once you place in the tank, but this will accelerate the process. Use a bucket to prep things instead of the aquarium, this way you can get on top of things and cycle the tank much faster, essentially bypassing the cycle altogether, a so called "silent cycle". Algae remove NH4 [ammonium] directly, so there's no NO2 or NO3 build up. No need for bacteria (they will form later anyway, but will have a less prominent role). For folks that do FC ["fish cycling" in FW tanks], they should prep their algae filters in a bucket, not bomb the whole tank with NH3 [ammonia]. That's foolish to do that."
Eric Borneman: "What turfs are, essentially, are excellent nitrogen and phosphorus uptake species, with a number of benefits over many other species: faster growing, less invasive, more efficient and less toxic than macroalgae, much more efficient by fast growth than Xenia, and far more effective in most tanks than seagrasses (which require so much more light, sediments, symbiotic microbes, benthic nutrients, and space) or mangroves. The big benefit of turfs as nutrient uptake and export, if needed or desired (by removal of the turfs as they grow), is that they grow faster than macroalgae in biomass, are generally not producers of prolific secondary metabolites (their defense and competition is fast growth), and they are confined to a specific area and are thus not invasive. Even if some get released into the tank, they are very palatable and are a treat for herbivorous fishes and invertebrates. In fact, turfs are havens for copepods, amphipods, ostracods, and polychaetes, favoring their reproduction."
Tom Barr: "You might also suggest this to folks, you can prep this [scrubber] filter very easily by using a bucket and the pump and getting a good film of growth outside (if possible , near a window with direct sun light) on the screen prior to use in the aquarium; no waiting for it to get all furry. This is pre cycling for an algae scrubber. There is a little sloughing and adaptation once you place in the tank, but this will accelerate the process. Use a bucket to prep things instead of the aquarium, this way you can get on top of things and cycle the tank much faster, essentially bypassing the cycle altogether, a so called "silent cycle". Algae remove NH4 [ammonium] directly, so there's no NO2 or NO3 build up. No need for bacteria (they will form later anyway, but will have a less prominent role). For folks that do FC ["fish cycling" in FW tanks], they should prep their algae filters in a bucket, not bomb the whole tank with NH3 [ammonia]. That's foolish to do that."
Update Of The Day:
"Christophe" on the MD site has an idea which could greatly improve a screen's performance after cleaning. As you know, after cleaning there is very little algae remaining to do any filtering. One way around this has been to clean half the screen each week, and another is to use two screens, cleaning only one screen per week. Yet another way is to pancake two screens together which makes extra deep holes for the algae to grab on to. (By the way, "rug canvas" holds on to algae much better than "plastic canvas", it's just more flimsy and hard to work with.)
Christophe's idea was to use Lego Base Plates (the ones you played with as a kid):
They are available all over the web, and at almost every toy store and discount store. The beauty of these plates is that no matter how hard you clean/scrape, algae will still remain in-between the pegs (except the first week or so, where it will all come off anyways). Of course, you'll still want to sand/scratch all the areas in-between the pegs, but overall this looks very promising, if someone else would like to try it.
One disadvantage is that the plates are not (at least that I could find) available in clear, so a light on one side does not benefit the other side like it does with a screen. But since these plates are only formed one-sided anyways, it might not be such a bad thing, and indeed would be perfect for a twin-screen one-bulb setup.
"Christophe" on the MD site has an idea which could greatly improve a screen's performance after cleaning. As you know, after cleaning there is very little algae remaining to do any filtering. One way around this has been to clean half the screen each week, and another is to use two screens, cleaning only one screen per week. Yet another way is to pancake two screens together which makes extra deep holes for the algae to grab on to. (By the way, "rug canvas" holds on to algae much better than "plastic canvas", it's just more flimsy and hard to work with.)
Christophe's idea was to use Lego Base Plates (the ones you played with as a kid):
They are available all over the web, and at almost every toy store and discount store. The beauty of these plates is that no matter how hard you clean/scrape, algae will still remain in-between the pegs (except the first week or so, where it will all come off anyways). Of course, you'll still want to sand/scratch all the areas in-between the pegs, but overall this looks very promising, if someone else would like to try it.
One disadvantage is that the plates are not (at least that I could find) available in clear, so a light on one side does not benefit the other side like it does with a screen. But since these plates are only formed one-sided anyways, it might not be such a bad thing, and indeed would be perfect for a twin-screen one-bulb setup.
Although you have to consider that a clear screen only has advantages in 2 stages of the algae scrubber. A. When first built and B. when cleaned. And B isn't a very solid time for it either since only one side of the screen is being cleaned and the algae will only benefit for a few hours if at all. BUT the lego screen would have reflective properties within the first weeks time where it wouldn't be covered in algae and would reflect light initially back at the bulb with restrike then once any amount of algae were to start to grow you would have bit and pieces that would reflect back into the algae for a little bit of time. This would increase the growth within the first stage of the scrubber by probably some unmeasurable amount or maybe it could be worthwhile? Who knows. Anyone have any I could build a screen with? I'll be the guinea pig.
Screen Production
I actually have several commercialized production designs, although they will sit in my brain or on hand written paper. My dad has had a lot of ideas stolen so that is one thing I'm leary about. But I do think there would be a specifically hard time commercializing on this particular idea. I beleive there are patents on the idea already anyway. And it's like you said hard to even manufacture both DIY and commercially. Biological filtration is only a big seller if millions swear by and beleive in the product. Even then, it's hard because people swear by bioballs and they're terrible but they do have a huge following because people for some reason beleive in them. BTW how much did it cost you to have your acrylic box made? I've looked and looked for plastic workers here in phoenix but they're rediculous in how much they want to charge for stuff.
Oh and I didn't get my tests up and running this weekend as my girlfriend and I cleared room on the balconies of our apartment and I got a new biocube from goodwill for $12 and was leak testing it, holds water like a charm! Can't beat that deal, I'm going to use it as my sump since it's absolutely perfect size for my super awkward stand.
My scrubbers gettin a decent coat of algae on it, haven't been able to take pictures this weekend was so busy. BUT I thought you might like to know Santa, you know how I put that like on the bottom of my scrubber? I have light coat of algae down there that is over inch long strands! It's an old light and that stuff seems to love it! I'll try to get you some pics of that, it's just hard because that box I used isn't 100% see through.
I actually have several commercialized production designs, although they will sit in my brain or on hand written paper. My dad has had a lot of ideas stolen so that is one thing I'm leary about. But I do think there would be a specifically hard time commercializing on this particular idea. I beleive there are patents on the idea already anyway. And it's like you said hard to even manufacture both DIY and commercially. Biological filtration is only a big seller if millions swear by and beleive in the product. Even then, it's hard because people swear by bioballs and they're terrible but they do have a huge following because people for some reason beleive in them. BTW how much did it cost you to have your acrylic box made? I've looked and looked for plastic workers here in phoenix but they're rediculous in how much they want to charge for stuff.
Oh and I didn't get my tests up and running this weekend as my girlfriend and I cleared room on the balconies of our apartment and I got a new biocube from goodwill for $12 and was leak testing it, holds water like a charm! Can't beat that deal, I'm going to use it as my sump since it's absolutely perfect size for my super awkward stand.
My scrubbers gettin a decent coat of algae on it, haven't been able to take pictures this weekend was so busy. BUT I thought you might like to know Santa, you know how I put that like on the bottom of my scrubber? I have light coat of algae down there that is over inch long strands! It's an old light and that stuff seems to love it! I'll try to get you some pics of that, it's just hard because that box I used isn't 100% see through.
Man, that's a pretty penny but I did see the pictures that thing is super nice! How many algae scrubbers do you have? I just kind put together in my head that you probably have like 40 of these things laying around. Why not sell off some of the prototypes to the people buggin you for a taste of algae scrubber goodness? Or is it kind of a sentimental timeline type dealio?
Well there are three folks now on the scrubber builder directory who can build your scrubber for you: 2 in the U.S., 1 in the U.K. So there is no excuse to not have your own scrubber 
Algae Scrubbers • View topic - Builder Directory
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Algae Scrubbers • View topic - Builder Directory
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Day 9
I know it's been a pretty big gap since I've posted a pic but considering I had a bunch of die off due to having to have my scrubber not flowing for a good 6+ hours and burning the middle for the first couple days since I left the lights on 24/7 it has pretty good growth. The left side in the picture has algae on it but when I took the picture the flash seemed to "erase" it from the screen I remember you having some wierd thing like that Santa Monica... I wonder what causes that maybe some sort of absorbtion of certain light spectrums? Either way, my scrubber is build far beyond efficient for my tank so even if that algae wasn't there it wouldn't change the results. I need to get a good camera to try to take pics of the bottom of the scrubber, I think you'd be interested about the results down there Santa Monica! There's green hair algae thriving down there, growing straight up, I would say within a month's time there will be a full BED of algae in that water which if trimmed in front of my water outlet should create a fairly nice polish to the water right before leaving and a playground for copepods and amphipods as well as goblins... okay maybe not goblins....dammit. Does anyone here know the process of getting baby snails into shells? I believe I bred a sh*tload of trochus or turbo snails and their chompin away at the walls in my refugium but they are so small right now I doubt they would take a shell.. do you have to give them different size shells as they grow or do they grow their own shell? I'm assuming it depends on the type of snail. They could only be trochus, turbos or nassarius. Well, they COULD be something else but thats all that's in my tank. Let me know about everything! Testing has been delayed due to my new sump, once I have my new sump installed and more than 40 cents in my bank account testing will start. If anyone has any specific ideas of things I could use for controls and variables in these tests let me know. I will be running a 1. Brand new saltwater tank seeded from either a small piece of live rock or some sand. 2. TAP water with gravel from an established fresh tank. I have a few others as well but right now I can't think hahaha, too early!!!!
I know it's been a pretty big gap since I've posted a pic but considering I had a bunch of die off due to having to have my scrubber not flowing for a good 6+ hours and burning the middle for the first couple days since I left the lights on 24/7 it has pretty good growth. The left side in the picture has algae on it but when I took the picture the flash seemed to "erase" it from the screen I remember you having some wierd thing like that Santa Monica... I wonder what causes that maybe some sort of absorbtion of certain light spectrums? Either way, my scrubber is build far beyond efficient for my tank so even if that algae wasn't there it wouldn't change the results. I need to get a good camera to try to take pics of the bottom of the scrubber, I think you'd be interested about the results down there Santa Monica! There's green hair algae thriving down there, growing straight up, I would say within a month's time there will be a full BED of algae in that water which if trimmed in front of my water outlet should create a fairly nice polish to the water right before leaving and a playground for copepods and amphipods as well as goblins... okay maybe not goblins....dammit. Does anyone here know the process of getting baby snails into shells? I believe I bred a sh*tload of trochus or turbo snails and their chompin away at the walls in my refugium but they are so small right now I doubt they would take a shell.. do you have to give them different size shells as they grow or do they grow their own shell? I'm assuming it depends on the type of snail. They could only be trochus, turbos or nassarius. Well, they COULD be something else but thats all that's in my tank. Let me know about everything! Testing has been delayed due to my new sump, once I have my new sump installed and more than 40 cents in my bank account testing will start. If anyone has any specific ideas of things I could use for controls and variables in these tests let me know. I will be running a 1. Brand new saltwater tank seeded from either a small piece of live rock or some sand. 2. TAP water with gravel from an established fresh tank. I have a few others as well but right now I can't think hahaha, too early!!!!
Attachments
Reminder Of The Day: Feeding
Here is a diagram by Eric Borneman that shows what feeds on what:
It was taken from Eric's two building block articles that cover what happens when you feed your tank. This information is what you need to know to really understand what scrubbers do:
The Food of Reefs, Part 5: Bacteria by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
The Food of Reefs, Part 6: Particulate Organic Matter by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
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Here is a diagram by Eric Borneman that shows what feeds on what:
It was taken from Eric's two building block articles that cover what happens when you feed your tank. This information is what you need to know to really understand what scrubbers do:
The Food of Reefs, Part 5: Bacteria by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
The Food of Reefs, Part 6: Particulate Organic Matter by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
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Bad day.
Have you ever had a bad day? Multiply that by 42,162 and that was yesterday. I don't know how but every force in existence was against me and my girlfriend. Now, I am forced to leave town for 4 days and probably come back to a tank with a malfunctioning scrubber, flooded (multiple times) etc. I only say this because last night I went to switch my crappy sump out for a 18 gallon nano tank which fit PERFECTLY under my tank. Protein Skimmer snaps in half, small pump burns up, plumbing above ball valves comes off, all the way off. Then it happened, my girlfriend picked up the Dolphin Pump to put the clear hose on the barbed fitting and the fates step in. "bam" entire bottom of nano spidered, dolphin pumps are very heavy and glass as we all know doesn't like heavy. then within the process of fixing everything, my refugium overflows, then my tank overflows. I hook my scrubber back up and the pump all the sudden decides it doesn't want to work. And let me just interject here this is all AFTER spending 8 hours at the house I'm moving out of, setting up an emergency garage sale, trying to sell all my precious items with no luck, then moving my room. And having the same luck there. And also keep in ming that THAT was all after WORK.
And I'm too poor to eat right now, so all without food.
I just needed to vent, I know most of you really could care less or will delete this post since it doesn't have anything to do with ATS other than the fact that mine will most likely take a huge dump on my whilst I'm gone. If any of you have compassion please trade me my fish tank for a gun. I was about to just fry up my clown fish last night I'm so close to quitting this hobby, maybe there's hope, I don't know anymore. Thanks for reading or skipping.
-Chris
Have you ever had a bad day? Multiply that by 42,162 and that was yesterday. I don't know how but every force in existence was against me and my girlfriend. Now, I am forced to leave town for 4 days and probably come back to a tank with a malfunctioning scrubber, flooded (multiple times) etc. I only say this because last night I went to switch my crappy sump out for a 18 gallon nano tank which fit PERFECTLY under my tank. Protein Skimmer snaps in half, small pump burns up, plumbing above ball valves comes off, all the way off. Then it happened, my girlfriend picked up the Dolphin Pump to put the clear hose on the barbed fitting and the fates step in. "bam" entire bottom of nano spidered, dolphin pumps are very heavy and glass as we all know doesn't like heavy. then within the process of fixing everything, my refugium overflows, then my tank overflows. I hook my scrubber back up and the pump all the sudden decides it doesn't want to work. And let me just interject here this is all AFTER spending 8 hours at the house I'm moving out of, setting up an emergency garage sale, trying to sell all my precious items with no luck, then moving my room. And having the same luck there. And also keep in ming that THAT was all after WORK.
And I'm too poor to eat right now, so all without food.
I just needed to vent, I know most of you really could care less or will delete this post since it doesn't have anything to do with ATS other than the fact that mine will most likely take a huge dump on my whilst I'm gone. If any of you have compassion please trade me my fish tank for a gun. I was about to just fry up my clown fish last night I'm so close to quitting this hobby, maybe there's hope, I don't know anymore. Thanks for reading or skipping.
-Chris