Newbies

Team Ross · Feb 28, 2011

Hi
My husband and I thought it would be fun to have a fish tank and everything was going well. All our levels were normal for the first 4 weeks out 27 gallon tank and then we added a plant and ammonia levels went through the roof. The ph levels are very low. I don't want to loss anything so what can we do??? We added the stuff that they told us to at petsmart. we have done water charges like recommended. We have 2 dalmation mollies, 4 micky mouse plaites, 3 neons, 2 glo, hand full of guppies, catfish, and a bottom feeder. We also have a guppy fry. with a pregnant micky and guppy. What are we doing wrong??? What can we do to fix this??? We are going to be getting another tank that is smaller about 5 to 20 gallon. Please Help

lauraf · Feb 28, 2011

Did you cycle the tank before adding the fish? I'm guessing that the ammonia went crazy because you added a bunch of fish without an established bacteria cycle. I doubt a plant could cause crazy ammonia.
Let us know about the cycle, and we'll try to get your tank healthy. Do you also have tests for nitrites and nitrates? For now, don't worry about the pH - unless it is extremely high or extremely low, it's not of major concern . . . .
Cheers,
Laura

IThinkTherefore · Feb 28, 2011

Actually, what kind of plant is it? If it isn't a true aquatic plant, it could be rotting and contributing some amount to the ammonia. How much is through the roof?

achase · Feb 28, 2011

What stuff did petsmart tell you to add?
I agree with everything Laura already said. If you have questions about cycling there are two links in my signature. One is on doing a fishless cycle which doesn't apply to you but it still has some good information on the cycle and would be valuable to you for when you start your second tank. The second link is on doing an emergency cycle which is probably what you are doing to need to do.

nanu156 · Mar 1, 2011

Ummm so you are probably overstocked which isn't helping the issue. you have 13fish + the guppies and fry. You really should only have about 15 or so fish in that tank.

You are likely overfeeding as well. Go to feeding every other day and do heavy water changes. It will work it's self out. DO NOT BUY ANYMORE FISH. Hopefully being hungry causes the fish to pick off some guppy fry which should help.

Get rid of the female guppies that will help as well.

Dylandrewsdad · Mar 1, 2011

nanu156 said:

Ummm so you are probably overstocked which isn't helping the issue. you have 13fish + the guppies and fry. You really should only have about 15 or so fish in that tank.
QUOTE]

So guppies don't count? LOL

skjl47 · Mar 1, 2011

Hello; I see that you are being accused of overstocking. 15 to 20 (a hand full is around 5) small fish in 27 gallons does not seem overly excessive. If most of the fish were added in a short time, then the ammonia spike as already described could be the problem. On the stocking point, I have asked the folks that are quick to call a tank overstocked to justify their claims in some manner several times. So far they have not responded. (see the thread I started titled Stocking Density Opinion in freshwater general discussion section in this forum) If their claims are correct, it seems that they should be able to back them up in some manner. I have successfully kept similar numbers and more in a tank of you size.

Dan Steveo · Mar 1, 2011

An well established tank can sustain more fish than one that has just had a huge load added to it,every tank does however have a maximum it can sustain, it all depends on fish size and the amount they eat and excrete.. and how much the bacteria present in the tank can handle... The more you look after the tank and keep things in check will also increase the maximum amount of fish possible.. It's an unfortunate fact that tanks have limits...

Anyway... Laura got it spot on i think.

skjl47 · Mar 1, 2011

Hello; Yes to the point of adding fish slowly over a period of time in order to give things a chance to balance. Also those new to the hobby may have fewer problems by going slow in the beginning. Also if you make a rookie mistake there will be fewer fish to lose.

prsturm · Mar 1, 2011

Dear skjl47:

People don't "accuse" others of overstocking. It's just a message board. This isn't a moral dilemma. Quit taking it as a personal attack. This attitude is ridiculous.

skjl47 · Mar 1, 2011

Hello prsturm; First; even if I use a different word or state it differently, the meaning will be the same. Second; I started a thread titled Stocking Density Opinion in the freshwater general discussion section in this forum in order to have a dedicated place to discuss this issue. Third; In the months I have followed this forum, many times has the statement been made that a members tank is overstocked when it did not seem so to me. Ridiculous as it may seem to you, It still seems to me that some one be able to back up such statements in some manner.

CommonSence · Mar 1, 2011

+1 prsturm

Hello; skjl47...

Lets get a basic understanding of the tank your swimming in. You are a new fish here and may not be familiar with the water parameters. Here we who work in fish and take care of our mts addictions try to help when ever and where ever we can. We give advice based on research and knowledge gained from actual experience on fish and flora. We don't arbitrarily accuse anyone of anything we give our best advice. When a person takes time out of their busy day and time away from all their tanks and fish and plants, to give some quick Internet advice to help someone they don't expect an argument they just offered help. Don't come into the tank nipping every fin that behavior is best suited for other types of forums. Thanks for your time in reading this post.

skjl47 · Mar 1, 2011

Hello common sense; I have been keeping freshwater tropical fish since about 1959. I am new to the forum, not to the hobby. If it helps my credibility at all; I also have a degree in biology. It also seems that you are a teenie weenie fish to my little fish. I appear to have been a member of the forum longer than you. Go to the thread I started on stocking density and give me an answer. When I post a statement on this forum, I try to back it up from my personal experience or from knowledge gained over 33 years as a biology teacher. I am asking others to do the same. Why not post your comments from your personal message as well.

CommonSence · Mar 1, 2011

If you DO understand biology, you should know that an aquarium such that the OP described as being in trouble with high ammonia after 3 or 4 weeks indicates overstocking. May not be overstocked with what that tank size could POTENTIALLY handle, but overstocked with what the fishkeeper can handle with current husbandry practices and the available beneficial bacteria colony of the tank.

Just because I seldom post (post count is what changes your 'fish size') does not mean I am new here. Last I understood history and math, July 2010 came BEFORE November 2010.

nanu156 · Mar 1, 2011

Dylandrewsdad said:

nanu156 said:

No guppies count but she didn't give a number she said a handful hard to tell how many that is, that's why i said 13 + guppies (because handful to me is about 5 but what is it to her, she also has fry how many are there? how big? who knows) in the end they are overstocked.

nanu156 · Mar 1, 2011

skjl47 said:

I responded on your other thread. I have been in the hobby for a very long time. I am an advocate for high stocking levels (ask drew and mikes dad lol he will tell you we have gone head to head on stocking on various threads)

However this is not to be confused with being an advocate on NOOBS going crazy on stocking.

The reasons I suggested this are as follows

-handfull of guppies (5?) Fry (10-20) how many more will this generate in 3 months?
-guppies are messy, they are messy eaters they don't clean up after themselves
-she has the tell tail signs that her tank is in trouble

If this was someone like laura I would have given different suggestions because she has been in the hobby for a very long time, her problems are not basic. She isn't overfeeding her fish, her tank isn't potentially improperly stocked etc.

Additionally before you tear me a new one, you had a tank that had crazy high stock like 300% or so what it should have yes? how many of those fish do you still have? I have plecos that are 10 years old, I have African cichlids that are 5+ years old. So.... I think I have a decent idea what I'm talking about.

Yes heavy stocking will work for someone with decades of exp, in a large tank, absolutely this works. For someone who has a month in the hobby not so much.

You have never challenged me on a stocking suggestion, you did post a tirade that i just responded to.

Look at my stocking numbers and tell me if I am overstocked (yes way 200+ overstocked actually) my tanks stay normal because I know what I am doing.

When the OP gets the hang of it and is posting advanced questions that don't have basic root causes like high ammonia my advice will be different.

If you would like to continue this please PM me.

This post was not to imply that you don't know what you are doing, and doesn't have a snotty tone btw (no tone with the written word lol)

More that heavy stocking is for an advanced fish keeper, an advanced fish keeper would see an ammonia spike and not be surprised they would know how to respond and why it happened. A noob needs to stay with basic stock and for the most part stick to 1" of fish rule. When they get more advanced then they should play with the numbers.

I have had a long day with a very cranky kiddo so forgive me if I don't come off as a ray of sunshine.

donnajohnson3 · Mar 1, 2011

does anyone have information on puffer fish (Newbee) What about babies and pregnancy? t
Thank you much Donna

nanu156 · Mar 1, 2011

So I have never kept them, but what I have been told is this;

messy eaters, aggressive, like brackish water, not for beginners.

CommonSence · Mar 2, 2011

we have a fresh water puffer in a community tank to keep the snail population in check. I love our puffer!

Dan Steveo · Mar 2, 2011

i have to keep an eye on my snails little monsters they are... new tank. 4 weeks in... new plant.. 3 new snails .. i got one though... i'm trying to find the others before they do it like rabbits.... :/

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