I tend to ramble on a lot too, but your perfectly right fishboy. I know i'm posting a lot about this topic but this post I started also brings up some moral ethics issues which could be applied to other situations. I know people do cruel things to animals all the time, but it just shows how sad society can be when u have something like this going on in a place such as a museum which is supposed to be a "refined" place where people can come to learn and enjoy art, not mutilate living creatures! I don't know. I just fealt so disgusted when I read that article and found out that nothing was done to stop the exhibit from continuing.
OMG this is so wrong !!
- Thread starter Fatboy
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Whatever happened to painting and real art that took talent?! A little 7 year old kid could've come up with this stupid crap!
Ya'lls quit meat? Does that include fish? You guys are missing out. I'm trying to quit pork, but its kinda not working. Beef is whats for dinner, and you could have your salad. j/k
Ya'lls quit meat? Does that include fish? You guys are missing out. I'm trying to quit pork, but its kinda not working. Beef is whats for dinner, and you could have your salad. j/k
I never called it art myself, that's silly. It's a statement maybe, but art has a lot more to do with composition of shape/color/motion....hmmm wait. lol j/k
I knew I'd probably be the only one to say what I said...I was being honest I guess...*shrug*
I play games like quake 3 where you run around blowing people to pieces with grenade launchers. I laugh when I watch america's funniest home videos and the kid hits his dad in his wedding tackle. And the coolest show on TV (besides blue planet o/c) is Extreme Elimination Challenge!
And yet, today when I was doing a tank change and was syphoning out of a 20, I got distracted taking care of the my 1 month old daughter... so I lost 18 gallons of hard earned cycled water on the floor... and I'm worried about these little fish of mine who have to live in tap water now =(
maybe I'm some weird type of hypocrite. I guess if it was my precious blue ram in the blender I would have decked the guy hehe.
I knew I'd probably be the only one to say what I said...I was being honest I guess...*shrug*
I play games like quake 3 where you run around blowing people to pieces with grenade launchers. I laugh when I watch america's funniest home videos and the kid hits his dad in his wedding tackle. And the coolest show on TV (besides blue planet o/c) is Extreme Elimination Challenge!
And yet, today when I was doing a tank change and was syphoning out of a 20, I got distracted taking care of the my 1 month old daughter... so I lost 18 gallons of hard earned cycled water on the floor... and I'm worried about these little fish of mine who have to live in tap water now =(
maybe I'm some weird type of hypocrite. I guess if it was my precious blue ram in the blender I would have decked the guy hehe.
I'm obviously not for the senseless killing of animals, but I think this is a great piece of art. He never invited people to turn on the blender. When you see the piece, though, you see the fish and the blender and the cord running into the wall. There's an opportunity to look into yourself and see if there is any desire inside to blend a fish. During the entire time this piece was shown, only one asshole decided to actually do it.
Um...apparantly you didn't read the article completely mann. He most definitely did invite people to blend the fish. BEEEP wrong answer try again.
Direct quote from the article "The display at the Trapholt Art Museum in Kolding featured 10 blenders and invited visitors to blend the fish if they wanted to."
Direct quote from the article "The display at the Trapholt Art Museum in Kolding featured 10 blenders and invited visitors to blend the fish if they wanted to."
I'll go out on a limb and agree to a degree with Mann. The purpose of art is varied. One of the purposes is to challenge ideals, to reflect the nature of your audience, the nature of man. His display did succeed in showing the darker side of human nature. I find it disturbing too, and don't like just random killing of any animal, but his "piece" as it were, did succeed, it prompted discussion about the ethics of man. If he'd really wanted to drive a point home one would have imagined he'd have an array of fish, beautiful betta's done to, in the general publics view, some very ugly albino catfish or pleco. See which fish ends up getting blender'd. I myself prefer more traditional forms of art, and I find this example a little appalling, but whether you like it or not, by discussing it, you are proof that it has succeedded in its goal...to outrage you into discussing it.
I feel that the reason people are upset with this is not nessecarily because of the fact that they are killing goldfish (dont get me wrong, that is bad enough), but that they are doing it in the name of 'art' ; and for human enjoyment. If an oscar owner decides to feed live fish, then the oscar is benefiting from the death of another creature. Just putting a fish in a blender and turning it on benefits nothing or no one.
Exactly, and yet some people had no problems stepping forth and blending up a poor fish, for no reason, other than perhaps the power to say, I can blend this fish if I want, and there is nothing it can do. Whether its art depends on you're definition, but it does spark social commentary. Its certainly sensationalistic, it probably suffers from a tad to much shock value, and not enough of displaying an actual point, but then, not all art is good enough to strike that delicate balance.
mann and madh prove my point humans are fascinated with power that we have,and we use it because we can.they are as much right as the rest of us their angle just comes froma different facet of human nature.there is something about just wondering what happens if i do "this" although if these behaviours arise in small childeren they are offen said to be ill and many mental health officals deem it early signs of "abusers"
edit in no way am i saying anything bad about either mann or madh just that they point out a different veiw.
edit in no way am i saying anything bad about either mann or madh just that they point out a different veiw.
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Well, if thats what you call 'power'! Pretty meaningless if one feels 'powerful' just because he can hurt an animal. If people want to have that sort of useless 'power', they can have it and even take mine.
I think it goes deeper than 'power'! I think it is the pleasure to see harm/hurt/misfortune/injury/destruction/bad luck/etc of others and it does not have to be just animals. I believe that these people have no compassion for others, no sympathy for others, no feelings for others, no consideration for others, etc, etc, etc! What it boils down to is that they only think about themselves, even if it means hurting someone else because of it, they just dont care about the next person's feelings, etc. There's no thought about 'putting yourself into the other person's shoes' and nevermind about 'going the extra mile' for someone in need/distress/etc. What basicly Im describing is a very selfish person with only his own life as the absolute center. Sad, very sad!
But, then again, maybe Im not a true 'human' if 'humans are fascinated with power'.
I think it goes deeper than 'power'! I think it is the pleasure to see harm/hurt/misfortune/injury/destruction/bad luck/etc of others and it does not have to be just animals. I believe that these people have no compassion for others, no sympathy for others, no feelings for others, no consideration for others, etc, etc, etc! What it boils down to is that they only think about themselves, even if it means hurting someone else because of it, they just dont care about the next person's feelings, etc. There's no thought about 'putting yourself into the other person's shoes' and nevermind about 'going the extra mile' for someone in need/distress/etc. What basicly Im describing is a very selfish person with only his own life as the absolute center. Sad, very sad!
But, then again, maybe Im not a true 'human' if 'humans are fascinated with power'.
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well you see red if we look back through history these are observation that hold true through the ages.there will always be people that love and cherish life and those who the ends justify the means whatever they may be.untill we all get over this huge power trip that most of humanity has we will never rise above sick and mindless stuff like blending fish and war,greed ect...
as far you not being human, i always guessed that because your discus skills are out of this world.always something new from you.
as far you not being human, i always guessed that because your discus skills are out of this world.always something new from you.
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Well I like to play devil's advocate sometimes too. Sometimes things that outrage us, send us into anger so quickly that we don't look objectively at it. Is what he did rather sick and obsence, certainly. Does it say something rather prolific about the nature of the people that actually turned the blender on...most certainly. The artist could probably have found a less gruesome way to make his point, but artists are famously and historically rather "over the top" as it were. I don't like the fact that fish got ground up for no reason, and I wouldn't have turned on a blender myself, but I have to give him credit for getting us all talking about it, which is surely his goal, infamous or not.
There is certainly an element of that in it, its a natural human trait, one of many, we're really not so perfect and angelic as we'd like to think we are. But in this case I don't think its an issue of:
because an organism such as a fish, to someone who would blender it, is not on the same level as people. Its just a thing, its not conscious so to speak. They'd look at it like I don't have to put myself in the fish's shoes, fish aren't smart enough to have shoes. The other part is a daring factor. Would you dare blender a fish, could you actually do it. There it is, placed in the blender in front of you. Could you momentarily be emotionless and turn on the blender. Like it or not, whether you think it'd be sick or not, people would get a rush of..."I can't believe I just did that". There might be a hindsight of revulsion, but humans have a rather poor habit of acting before they think sometimes. In my opinion these type of performance art pieces don't have any traditional artistic talent, rather its more of a social commentary talent. Shock value is often the lazy artists way of achieving this sometimes.
There is certainly an element of that in it, its a natural human trait, one of many, we're really not so perfect and angelic as we'd like to think we are. But in this case I don't think its an issue of:
because an organism such as a fish, to someone who would blender it, is not on the same level as people. Its just a thing, its not conscious so to speak. They'd look at it like I don't have to put myself in the fish's shoes, fish aren't smart enough to have shoes. The other part is a daring factor. Would you dare blender a fish, could you actually do it. There it is, placed in the blender in front of you. Could you momentarily be emotionless and turn on the blender. Like it or not, whether you think it'd be sick or not, people would get a rush of..."I can't believe I just did that". There might be a hindsight of revulsion, but humans have a rather poor habit of acting before they think sometimes. In my opinion these type of performance art pieces don't have any traditional artistic talent, rather its more of a social commentary talent. Shock value is often the lazy artists way of achieving this sometimes.
You missed my point, madh! I was actually taking it a step higher if you will and not only using animals as the object of discussion here. Im taking it up to the human relationship now and reflecting the same sort of feelings/motives/thoughts....'power feelings'... that we may have towards one another. I was not just limiting it to animals. Ime, people that had no compassion for animals, well, it also shows up in their relationships towards others. Of course, this may not be the case all the time but in general.
Being perfect or whatever doesnt really apply here. Its just a matter of actually using a little brain power and thinking that my friend/family/next person is also a human being! Its taking the few seconds to think of something other than ones own self!
Being perfect or whatever doesnt really apply here. Its just a matter of actually using a little brain power and thinking that my friend/family/next person is also a human being! Its taking the few seconds to think of something other than ones own self!
I would argue that a fishkeeper feeding goldfish to an oscar is doing it for his own pleasure, as we all know that live fish are not the most nutritious or healthiest things to feed with. So he's not too different than the guy that pushed the frappe button...
Other than that, good posts madhippoz, you're well spoken, made me think a bit.
Other than that, good posts madhippoz, you're well spoken, made me think a bit.