OMG this is so wrong !!

[Leopardess]

I don't feed my fish live food, but if I did, my reasons would have nothing to do with my personal pleasure. My reason would be to try and simulate the natural food of my fish, which would be other, live fish. My reasons would be completley and utterly based upon trying to do the "natural" thing, avoiding feeding my fish reconstituted fish flakes. I don't understand how a "normal" person could derive any amount of pleasure out of the death of something else - unless, say, one was out hunting and shot a deer and knew full well that that animal would be FEEDING the family, because that is the way nature intended it. Lions have the power to kill several antelope or gazelle or wart hogs in a day but they only kill what they need to survive themselves. When was the last time you heard of an animal killing another animal and not eating it? When an animal kills just for the fun, or out of curiousity and then leaves the pray behind (this does not include when animals fight or feel threatened and kill as a result of that - that is also nature and I doubt the guy who pushed the button felt threatened by a fish)? I don't know, it might just be me because I'm a softy for animals ( I admit, I bury my fish in little fishie graves with name tags on them and I if I find an ant in the house, I take it outside rather than squish it to death - I'm crazy, I know ).

I don't know...I see the 'art' in the fish itself, to showcase a living organisms beauty but sticking it in a blender to make a point and then mashing it? That seems to me like simply making a statement ( albeit it somewhat twisted). I would not call an anti-abortionist group parading around with dead fetuses on the ends of sickles (sp?) art - that is just a statement (about human's varying beliefs about what is a human life). Hmm...I can't explain what I'm trying to say...everyone has the right to believe what they want, and that is one-hundred percent okey-dokey with me. But when it is at the cost of a life of another defenseless creature...

 

[catfishmike]

so basicly what your saying is that,for all the talk of humans being sentient, we are littel more than well evolved predators that have the option to think and rationalize occasionaly.im' sorry but i just see traits like that as the failures of our evolution as a higher being.and the arguement that fish,or any animal for that matter being less conscious than any other creature that is invalid we just have the ability to circumvent the fishes natual defense witch is escape.if you notice in any tank wher feeders are used they try to escape.all life forms fear death.some just don't know how it's coming.

 

[madhippoz]

Point taken Red. However I think there's a big difference in comparing the two.

Im taking it up to the human relationship now and reflecting the same sort of feelings/motives/thoughts....'power feelings'... that we may have towards one another.

We still see this in humans, and people feeling this way towards others. Its the basis of a lot of descrimination and racism, these feelings of power, or superiority over other peoples. But I'd argue it takes a much more extreme personality to bring these feelings out towards another person, as it would to bring them out regarding a fish. It's much harder to dismiss the intellect and ideals of another person. Its easy to disagree with them and think their wrong, but not to dismiss them. With an animal, and I agree with all of you, fish in particular, it seems to be very easy to dismiss them down to a simple object, a base creature. I believe you're all correct, if it had been a puppy, or a soft furry kitten, he'd be convicted of a crime of animal cruelty. So even inadvertently he's showing the hypocrisy of men's feelings towards different classes and types of animals. I think you'll find that most good art, is the type that begs the question, that leaves things open to interpretation because our combined imaginations can come up with more reasons and truths from a piece of art, than a single artist. I'd ask you to go out and ask an artist how fully he agree's with the popular interpretation of one of his art pieces, I bet that quite often its not what he was exactly trying to achieve, heh so they usually fall back on the, "I made it in such a sense that everyone can take away their own understanding and meaning from it."

As for the definition, or perhaps the line between where art stops and sensationalistic social commentary begins, that's a tough question. It's hard to see from the pics, but his original layout of blenders and fish would be the art in my opinion, anything after that would turn it into not art so much as just pure social commentary. Heh but then art is social commentary so....

As for the live foods bit. Nothing is black and white. Everyone derives some satisfaction from watching their fish eat live foods. Let me beg the question, how many people simply add in the feeder fish and then walk away? Now, how many sit and watch? I know I fall into the latter category. I feel sorry somewhat for the feeder fish, but then I shrug, I'm just watching a natural process. But I do enjoy watching my predator fish feed on live food. If I didn't, I'd just feed them the regular processed food that gives them all the nutrients they already need.

 

[bobrob]

Yea that is a swordtail but anyways that is pretty damn sick I mean what the hell do people like that think. Oh yea I have an animal cruelty story here. My firend was on this so called "art website" and he told me that they injected little kittens with some sort of liquid that makes the cats bones soft and brittle and they squeezed the kittens into glass bottles and wacthed them grow they had pictures on the website like week 1 wek 2 week 3 week4 but on week 4 they didnt show the pictures because it got too sick to look at what with the body fluid and stuff. Sorry I dont know the site because theres a petition on it to get it banned because it still goes on. That is one of the sickest things ive ever even heard of.

 

[RedTurquoise]

Nice post! I think you now understand what Im saying about applying it to the human relation side!

But I'd argue it takes a much more extreme personality to bring these feelings out towards another person

Actually, I dont thinks its to do with a more extreme personality. Just think of why people do not portray their actions to humans as they might to animals, fish in particular in this case. Its called the law (police, courts, judges, prisons and in some countries the death penalty). If you think of it, thats the only thing holding back these kinds of human 'animals' if I can put it that way. In some cases, something 'snaps' in these people and they actually commit a crime.

Well, Im done! Thanks for listening!

 

[bobrob]

I reall should read the entire thread before I post shoudlnt I. lol

 

[madhippoz]

bobrob, that website wouldn't be http://www.bonsaikitten.com/
would it? In that case its not actually real, it was a joke.