Fishless Cycling - Everything You Wanted to know...

[ERN02]

Thanks for all the advice, we appreciate it! I did read another post about overdosing on ammonia, and it suggested taking a sample of tank water and diluting it 50% with regular tap water, and then testing ammonia again on this new diluted sample. I've done this, and that shows about 3ppm (or so), so I'm pretty confident that we don't have over 8ppm now. The ammonia test also works on our tap water, which has about 1ppm on its own. Our tap water also has about 20ppm nitrates, and tank tests show this same level.

I guess I'll try another major water change and let you know what happens. Thanks!

 

[ERN02]

Hi all. I did a major water change, like Froggy Fox recommended. I probably did about 90% change. I refilled with dechlor, warm tap water, with the filter off. I started the filter up again and after a couple hours, tested. Ammonia was about 1.5ppm (way down!), nitrites .5ppm and nitrates 20ppm (as before), and actually my pH dropped a bit -- it had always been 7.0 (tank and tap) and it was 6.5 now. I'm not concerned about the pH drop, but it's interesting....

I then added just a couple drops of ammonia and let it sit overnight. This morning it was about 3ppm or so. I think I'll leave it as is and test again in a few days. Sound right?

Again, thanks much for the advice. I do think that ammonia overdose must have totally stalled our cycle -- I just thought that first major water change I did 3 weeks ago would have started it up again.

 

[SANND]

Sounds like you're on the right track. You could probably add just a tad bit more ammonia to get it to .5 but as long as you're getting a cycle is what's really important.

 

[ERN02]

Good news...maybe. On February 7 we celebrated our ammonia level finally hitting 0, and we started added daily ammonia to bring it to 4ppm. We checked for a few days to make sure it was still getting to 0 in 24 hours, and it was! We've been checking nitrites regularly since then and a few days ago, that dropped to .5ppm! We were cautiously optimistic since this has been a long road (setting up our tank and starting the fishless cycling way back in December). So, we decided to check to ammonia -- after 18 hours it was still 4ppm, and after 24 hours, AND after 36 hours!! After 48 hours, it had dropped to 2ppm and remained there when we last checked which was 72 hours after we had last added the ammonia dosage. We had been using the dosage that was bringing us to 4ppm, but maybe the dosage gradually needs to go down? We haven't added ammonia since. What could cause this sudden stall??

 

[FroggyFox]

well if you haven't done any water changes your nitrates are probably sky high...that could cause some stall.

What are your nitrite, ammonia and nitrate readings right now?

Honestly though, I'm not sure whats causing it to stop at 2ppm...and the fact that this tank has been somewhat fishless cycling for two months now...I'd be tempted to just call it good.

Maybe you should try doing what you did in January again...do a huge water change, test after an hour or so, if you're still reading nitrates then do it again...just be sure not to have your filter running so you don't have any chance of chlorinated water getting into that bacteria. If I had to guess, I'd say the same thing will happen as happened after the last big water change.

I just read back a bit...why don't you lower your temperature to about 80? If for some reason your thermometer was a few degrees off and the tank got up to like 86, then that can kill bacteria too.

 

[ERN02]

Thanks for the tip on temperature -- it was definitely getting in those upper ranges sometimes. We've set it lower. The ammonia slowly creeped down to near zero, so we are adding more again, just monitoring carefully. Nitrites are about 0.5-1ppm and nitrates are 5-10ppm, so not high at all.

We are tempted to just call it done soon! But we'll see what another week gives us.

Again, thanks for always answering my newbie questions!

 

[FroggyFox]

hey no problem we were all newbies at some point, just hope what I'm saying helps! As long as you have the patience to get through it, another week would be great.

 

[prhelp]

Okay, I'm still not clear on something. When I add the tap water to the tank, before I actually add the first batch of ammonia, should I add any conditioner (eg, Amquel) to the water? Or should this be done only after the final water change, prior to adding fish, if I choose to use it at all? Seems to be a little lack of clarity here. Thx in advance.

 

[FroggyFox]

Unless you are on well water (not treated with chlorine) then yes, you ought to add conditioner to the tank before the ammonia. The chlorine would probably break down and you'd start growing bacteria after awhile, but bacteria probably aren't going to be growing well while the chlorine is present. Amquel can have some undesired effects regarding ammonia test kits, I'd suggest something like Prime or a generic water conditioner that takes chlorine out.

 

[ishar]

I would say, as a general rule of thumb, you should *never* allow chlorine to enter your set-up tank. It is just much easier that way at any point of the life of the tank. This way you don't have to worry about recycling your tank or about any mini cycles. And whe you are starting, I would think it would take a *lot* longer to start the cycle if you have chlorine in it to start off with.

 

[prhelp]

Excellent -- thanks, folks!

 

[tameem]

well, we are getting so impatient at our house. I have a 50 gallon setup and I added ammonia hydroxide (10% solution), about two cap fulls. The water for almost a week now is still reading at 8.0ppm. We just are not seeing any drops in ammonia. I have the temperature at like 85, I added a powerhead to create circulation and aeration, I even grabbed two decorations from a good healthy tank to speed up the process just on saturday. I think im doing everything right, but I just wish for once i would see an ammonia drop.
Is it normal for it take more then a week to notice? I haven't added any ammonia, I only added once to bring it up and that's it.

 

[Airborneguy]

Completely normal. Just sit and wait now, it will start to drop soon. I have been following your posts, and impatience is going to mess this thing up for you. Aready in anpother post you told us you did a massive water change... that set you back already. Plus, remember that depending on the test kit, you may be over 8ppm... meaning it could be slowly dropping already without you being able to register it until you get to a more readable level.

You want to do it right, tell the family they just have to wait. Otherwise, go get some Biospira, change the water and do it that way.

everyone has already told you all of this before. So just relax!!!!

 

[tameem]

okay,, thanks for your response. sorry, Im just getting so impatient, but I want to do it right.

by the way, its amazing how many LFS have never heard of fishless cycling. I haven't talked to once person yet that is familair with this method.
Im using by the way the Salicylate-based test kit.

 

[emmanuelchavez]

Who is the test-kit made by? I'd recommend the API master testkit. I've seen it at petshops for about $30-$40, but you can order it from our sponsors for like $15.

Gee, 4 months, and I'm already more than halfway through my bottles..... I test all those tanks religiously. Well, pH bottle is still pretty full, but I'm going to have to start using it now that I'm injecting CO2.

 

[tameem]

they are API, yes. I prefer these, as strip tests are much less accurate.
Im like you, aquariums you can learn alot, its not just about fish. I test my water all the time, probably at this stage more then I need to. I check ammonia daily, my nitirite is still at 0. Its just so disapointing when i just notice the same darn ammonia levels (although given the amount I added, it may very well be too high for the test to read it and it might be reducing), but im waiting).
It's also fun and interesting to test your dealer's water. I also got this powerheard this weekend and it looks great!!

 

[Airborneguy]

Ignore most of what LFS's tell you... they don't care if you lose fish, because it brings you back for more...

 

[emmanuelchavez]

Yeah. I started out with the API test strips.... which I didn't like one bit. I still have a whole bottle full of them, but I'm going to use them up now, mostly for the gh and kh tests, until i can buy the liquid ones.

haha, i tested a lfs' water a few times. I always (well, after learning about the whole cycle thing) wondered what their water params would be since they have so many fish in such 'small' tanks.... and i was a bit surprised, but very pleased to see readings of 0/0/30 for ammo,ites, and ates.

 

[tameem]

remember one thing though, if you see a lot of fish in their tanks, and if they are doing things right, they can do that because they have efficient central filtering systems, which allow them th have a great bioload in their tanks.
good point airborneguy about LFS. Im just also disapointed that after my studying, they tell you its so important to find a good LFS that cares, that are knowledgeable staff, to establish a business relationship, and I agree. but many of the ones I have experienced are just terrible. Sometimes you end up going there because it;s convenient, or the only one around.

 

[Airborneguy]

If you are lucky, you can find one which is worth listening to, but its usually not the case. The one I use is what I consider the best you will find: they care about the fish they have, and won't try to impress info on you unless you ask. Mix that with the fact that I know pretty much everything I need to know, or can learn it if they confuse me, and I consider them a good enough place to frequent. Plus, their selection is good and changes often.