Fishless Cycling - Everything You Wanted to know...

May 3, 2004
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#61
Fish were in for about 2 weeks. They developed Ick. I completely emptied tank flushed everything completely. When I cleaned the gravel I added about 1 capful of chlorine to 5 gals of water to sanitize due to having ick. Could this cause my problem?

The ammonia bottle states clear but it does have something called a chelating compound. Whatever that is.

I think a gravel vac would clean it up but I do not want to stop the cycle if possible.
 

FroggyFox

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#62
Hmm I dont know what a chelating compound is...might want to do a google search on it. Anyone else here know what that is?

You're going to keep putting ammonia in...so taking the powdery stuff out isn't going to help if thats whats causing it.

2 weeks was long enough to get some gunk in there from the fish...so its possible that what you're seeing is just normal stuff from stirring up the gravel...
 

May 3, 2004
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#63
Started the cycle on saturday night. Monday morning I stirred up the gravel and the filter did a good job of cleaning up the mess. Stirred again on Monday night and by Tuesday all signs of gunk were gone. I added ammonia on saturday and sunday. 1/2 tsp. each time. I just added 1/4 tsp. on Thursday night as test showed a slight change in color. Since Tuesday water has been sparkling clean. Bio wheel is turning slower but no rise in nitrites. I assume I screwed up the cycle by stirring the gravel. When adding ammonia to water on Thursday the water did not turn cloudy. Should I add the 1/4 tsp. everyday or wait to see if ammonia level drops first? Help is needed.
 

FroggyFox

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#64
You need to follow the directions in iggy's cycle...have you read the other thread on this?? http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13406

Basically you should add ammonia until your tank gets to about 5ppm (measureable amount, not the highest level on the chart) and then test the level of ammonia every couple of days until it starts getting lower. as it gets lower you need to add a little every day until the end of your cycle. Your ammonia will start disappearing very quickly...which is exactly what you want.

Then your nitrites will peak and fall to 0ppm. when this happens you stop adding ammonia, do a large water change...and then add your fish.

The amount of ammonia that you start adding every day should be equal to the amount of ammonia that it originally took to get your tank to ~5ppm.
 

rgdwar1

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May 29, 2004
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#65
I started my cycle on Thusday. And I have a concern that maybe someone can calm for me.

On Thursday I added 1 Tablespoon of ammonia, which brought me to 5-6ppm. Temp read at 82.

Yesterday. Tested water and ammonia still at approx 5-6ppm, so no ammonia was added. Also added 1 cup gravel from an established disease free tank (in a nylon behind the filter cartridge.

I tested it this morning and found that my ammonia was 4 ppm and nitrites at .25ppm. (Good start right?) Being as the ammonia was at 4ppm, I added 1/2 Teaspoon ammonia, waited 30 minutes and tested again...5ppm. Cool.

Tested ammonia again this evening...(I know...impatience isn't a virtue) and found I was at approx 8ppm.

Ok, so now here I am fraking out because I'm thinking I killed the cycle....

Can anyone help me or just tell me to shut up and be patient. Is the fact that the ammonia is so high, a huge problem???

Help a fellow Aquarist??? Please.



:(
 

FroggyFox

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#66
Sometimes what can happen is that you think you're adding enough to get to a certain level...but if you dont let it mix in well enough its really a lot higher than you think it is. I wouldn't worry...just dont add anymore ammonia until your ammonia seriously drops...like down to 1 or 2 ppm.

Its GREAT that you already have a nitrite measurement though!!
 

rgdwar1

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#69
This is my first fishless cycle....so bear with my naiveness.

When the ammonia level drops back down to 1-2 ppm, should I then resume adding my original amount of 1TBSP ammonia? Or should I add a capfull at a time until I get back to 5?
 

FroggyFox

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#70
I would just add a little...and then when the next day you test it and its at 0...then add your 1 Tbsp, or whatever it took to initially get your tank up to 5ppm. Make sure the next day the ammonia is back down to 0...and then no need to test ammonia anymore through the cycle...just add your tbsp every day and wait for your nitrites to peak then go back down.
 

Flex26

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Apr 21, 2003
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#71
Froggy was right on the money. Wait until your ammonia reaches zero before adding any more ammonia. And when you add ammonia just do a capful. A tablespoon may be a bit overkill, but will still work.

Personally, I think the only time you should continually add ammonia is during the nitrite cycle...after ammonia levels have dropped to zero. I think you add way too much ammonia by continually adding ammonia during the ammonia cycle.

For example, on day 1, you add a capful of ammonia to bring your levels to 5 ppm. On day 2, you have 4 ppm, so you add another capful. How much ammonia do you have on day two (after adding more ammonia)? 9 ppm!!! On day 3, enough bacteria has established to consume 3 ppm, so you add another capful? How much ammonia do you have after the capful? 11 ppm!!!!! :eek: (9-3+5) So you see where this is going....The bacteria isn't keeping up with the ammonia being added. Eventually it will, but I don't think a week is sufficient time for the bacteria to colonize. Of course, if you seeded your tank, you could possibly get enough bacteria in a weeks time. My example is for illustrative purposes. I do not know the reproductive rate of bacteria. I can only assume that bacteria reproduce at some exponential rate. And since ammonia is not increasing, the bacteria will eventually colonize enough to consume all ammonia added. I just don't think bacteria would be able to consume all bacteria within a weeks time without seeding.

IMO and IME, it's much more logical to bring your levels to 4-5 and let things ride until ammonia drops to zero. Then, during the nitrite spike, you shoud add ammonia to keep the bacteria happy.
 

FroggyFox

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#72
Flex is totally right. The only reason I used the tablespoon measurement is because thats what rgd said. Different ammonia has different concentrations, different size tanks require more or less ammonia to reach a certain concentration of ammonia initially...this is why you need to measure how much it took to get the tank to 5ppm originally to know the amount you need to add every day during the 2nd phase of the cycle. (after your initial 5ppm of ammonia has dropped to 0)
 

ladyhawk

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Oct 3, 2003
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#73
A reminder...

I have done this fishless cycle a few times before. I have had good results, however it's been a while I wondered something about the NitrIte part.

Currently I am cycling a 55 gal. I stared with almost 3 teaspoons of amonnia to get a 4 PPM reading. I can add 1 teaspoon a day and by morning it's 0 ppm again. BUT...this reading I'm getting for NitrIte is not budging. :rolleyes:

NirrItes have been reading over 1 ppm for over a week now. That's as high as this test goes by the way. I recall reading someone getting stuck at this part. Is there something I can do to speed this along? I have seeded this tank with the bio-wheels from a well used Emperor 400 and sand filled stockings from a established tank. I'm keeping it at 80 degress.

Any advise other than just hang in there?
 

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Jun 2, 2004
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#74
Hi all,

I have been doing the fishless cycle for a few weeks now. Within a few days my ammonia was disappearing on a daily basis, but my nitrite level was through the roof. Just last night I did a 50% water change. The nitrites were still throught the roof. Then i realized that I hadnt been putting in the chloramine neutralizer oops :(. So I was assuming that the the nitrite wasnt being converted to nitrate because those bacterias were being destroyed by the chloramine.

So how much longer do you think it will take?
 

FroggyFox

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#75
Re: A reminder...

Originally posted by ladyhawk
I have done this fishless cycle a few times before. I have had god results, however it's been a while I wondered something about the NitrIte part.

Currently I am cycling a 55 gal. I stared with almost 3 teaspoons of amonnia to get a 4 PPM reading. I can add 1 teaspoon a day and by morning it's 0 ppm again. BUT...this reading I'm getting for NitrIte is not budging. :rolleyes:

NirrItes have been reading over 1 ppm for over a week now. That's as high as this test goes by the way. I recall reading someone getting stuck at this part. Is there something I can do to speed this along? I have seeded this tank with the bio-wheels from a well used Emperor 400 and sand filled stockings from a established tank. I'm keeping it at 80 degress.

Any advise of than just hang in there?
Your test kit only goes to 1ppm??? That seems really low. Most test kits go up to at least 4 or 6 ppm...I think mine goes up to 8?? At any rate...if you think your nitrites are stuck up as far as they'll go...then you can do a LARGE water change...like 85 or 90 %, keep adding your ammonia every day...and see if your nitrites fall in a day or two to 0.

In your case I think 1 week isn't long enough to wait for them to fall on their own. It usually takes at least twice as long for the nitrites to fall as it takes the ammonia to fall.

By the way...you said that initially it took 3 teaspoons to get to 4ppm...but you're only adding 1 teaspoon a day now? In order to build up that bioload you really need to be adding those 3 teaspoons of ammonia every day to keep those bacteria fed and happy.

Only things you can really do to speed it along is to keep seeding (if you have other tanks...dunk the cartridges in the tank every couple of days) see if the temperature is up to 80+ but not over 85...make sure there is enough oxygen in the water (increase surface agitation with bubble wand or lowering the water level for more splash from HOB filter etc) and maybe just ignoring it for a few days. Nothing says you have to test it every day :) It kinda just makes the whole process more tedious to get the same results over and over and over.

Patience :)
 

FroggyFox

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#76
Originally posted by gersheff
Hi all,

I have been doing the fishless cycle for a few weeks now. Within a few days my ammonia was disappearing on a daily basis, but my nitrite level was through the roof. Just last night I did a 50% water change. The nitrites were still throught the roof. Then i realized that I hadnt been putting in the chloramine neutralizer oops :(. So I was assuming that the the nitrite wasnt being converted to nitrate because those bacterias were being destroyed by the chloramine.

So how much longer do you think it will take?
I'm confused...you said that you realized you hadn't been putting in chloramine neutralizer??? The only time you do a water change during a fishless cycle is at the very end (or in a case like I described above) and the only time you add water conditioner (dechlorinates and takes out chloramines) is when you do water changes...

Your nitrites will stay high for quite a long time. Did you seed your tank with anything from an established tank? Patience is the best way to deal with high nitrites...
 

Flex26

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Apr 21, 2003
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#78
The only time a water change works on nitrites during a fishless cycle is toward the end of the nitrite cycle. Basically, you're fudging the cycle a bit. But it works. The theory is that you manually remove a lot of the nitrites so that the existing bacteria can consume the rest of the nitrites. And, voila, a cycled tank. But if the bacteria is non-existent, then it doesn't work. Knowing when enough bacteria exists is really a crap shoot. :rolleyes:
 

ladyhawk

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Oct 3, 2003
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#79
NirtIte tests

I think the reason the test only reads up to 1 ppm is because the danger zone starts at about 0.25 ppm. So they figure if your getting over that then you have a problem.

I think I will slightly increase the Ammonia and dig up a differnt Nitrite test I have to see what it says. I believe this other one reads higher.

I do have other filter media I can bring over. I'll do that and see if it gets faster. I'm just really eager to get my 22 Pink Con fry out of the 10 Gal. they were born in. They are all about 1/4 to 1/2 inch now. They need more room!

Thanks!:)
 

Jun 8, 2004
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#80
you know i just read thru all this stuff in here and im a bit confused. bare with me im new at this. now when you are cycling am i right here that you get a tank put gravel in it plants whatever then add water that has been stresscoated or something like that. then you use pure ammonia to get the tank to read 5 ppm on ammonia test strips, then you wait a few days test ammonia levels if to 0 add more ammonia contiue to do until it drops within 24 to 0 then test nitrite if they are high then do a 90% water change and add ammoniato get to 5ppm again until nitrite levels stay at 0??? am i correct on all this i mean it is all explained so weird like could someone give me a timeline on things and when to do what walk me thru more set by step i know i may sound stupid. im really not just want to make sure im doing things right. i have read pretty much everything on here on cycling