why do the keep dying?!?!?!?
- Thread starter usacutie81
- Start date
Sounds like your tank is having major algae problems, which could explain why you have no nitrates in your tank.
Doesn't sound like you have found the cause of deaths yet?
How do you do your water changes for the tank? Do you just dump new conditioned water in, or do you slowly drain/pour it in? Also, how much water to you change out at a time? If changing large amounts of water quickly, they change in temp, pH, and more could possible be hurting your fish.
Doesn't sound like you have found the cause of deaths yet?
How do you do your water changes for the tank? Do you just dump new conditioned water in, or do you slowly drain/pour it in? Also, how much water to you change out at a time? If changing large amounts of water quickly, they change in temp, pH, and more could possible be hurting your fish.
I normally change out about 15-20% when I do water changes, usually once a week or every 10 days. I use a gravel vac, usually a small one so I can get in all the nooks and crannies without disturbing the plants. Then I take the fresh water that's in a bucket and slowly pour it in. I usually dump all the conditioning stuff into the first bucket. Also, the temp of the new water is always close to the temp of the old water, it usually only fluctuates a degree or two during water changes. I am attaching a pick of the tank so you can see the crazy algae. Also, you can see the rocks that I have and how porous they are. I am still very suspicious of them.
I have algae eaters. I had otos for the regular algae, but most of them have died from whatever is killing everyone else. Now I have to SAE's to eat that beard algae, but they just can't keep up with it. I need to know what I should do. Should I pull out the rocks to lower the PH? Should I worry more about the algae? If so, how do I get rid of that? This is very very frustrating.
well if it were my tank, I'd pull out the rocks and shells and columns (were those the white ones?). I'd start boiling water and pour boiled water over them and scrubbing them (same with the plants if they are silk/plastic).
Scrub down the tank and do water change. Algae will become toxic at high levels and that looks like a metric arse ton of algae.
you collected the subtrate from gulf of mexico....just along the shore? On top of the rocks that you said didn't pass the vinegar test (yes, I'd remove those, place them around the tank if it means that much to the hubby. Gravel from the shore can contain a lot of pollutants, not just natural pollutants washed up on the shore with them, but a lot of human pollutants as well, that you wouldn't see but would be there causing a major pollution in a small enclosed space. Those type of pollutants would be near impossible to wash off gravel.
Scrub down the tank and do water change. Algae will become toxic at high levels and that looks like a metric arse ton of algae.
you collected the subtrate from gulf of mexico....just along the shore? On top of the rocks that you said didn't pass the vinegar test (yes, I'd remove those, place them around the tank if it means that much to the hubby. Gravel from the shore can contain a lot of pollutants, not just natural pollutants washed up on the shore with them, but a lot of human pollutants as well, that you wouldn't see but would be there causing a major pollution in a small enclosed space. Those type of pollutants would be near impossible to wash off gravel.
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Seleya
Algae won't become toxic at high levels... It will actually help quite a bit with nutrient export. If it weren't so ugly, it would be a lot more popular since it will reduce nitrate significantly (as you're seeing right now).
The "vinegar test" isn't a pass/fail, it simply tells you if the rock contains a lot of calcium carbonate.
Since the shells/rocks did fizz, it means they are calcium carbonate, and it means they will buffer your pH up a little bit (as you're seeing).
A pH of 8.1 really isn't that much of a problem. Mine is 8.2 right out of the tap, and I have kept cardinals and other "low pH" fish without a problem. It's all just a matter of acclimation. With more fragile fish like cardinals, you have to be very careful to acclimate them slowly (drip acclimation is best).
Water changes, water quality, etc... Those are going to be your best friends...
The "vinegar test" isn't a pass/fail, it simply tells you if the rock contains a lot of calcium carbonate.
Since the shells/rocks did fizz, it means they are calcium carbonate, and it means they will buffer your pH up a little bit (as you're seeing).
A pH of 8.1 really isn't that much of a problem. Mine is 8.2 right out of the tap, and I have kept cardinals and other "low pH" fish without a problem. It's all just a matter of acclimation. With more fragile fish like cardinals, you have to be very careful to acclimate them slowly (drip acclimation is best).
Water changes, water quality, etc... Those are going to be your best friends...
Unless it's that slimey blue green algae stuff, the algae won't be toxic. A pH of 8.1 shouldn't be a problem either as long as there wasn't a big swing. Consistency is more important than the actual number.
Does your water have an odor? If the fish are having trouble swiming but no other visible symptoms it could be 'neon' disease? Just reaching for straws really so you might try searching the disease forum for similar symptoms that your fish are having.
Does your water have an odor? If the fish are having trouble swiming but no other visible symptoms it could be 'neon' disease? Just reaching for straws really so you might try searching the disease forum for similar symptoms that your fish are having.
The water doesn't have an odor. The fish don't show any signs of disease, they just start leaving the school and hiding, then they start swimming erratically, then the next time I see them they are dead. The algae is actually kinda pretty on the flat surfaces, it's thick and flowy, very mysterious. But it is not pretty on the plants, not at all.
Since the water comes out of the tap at 7.8 and then the rocks apparently bump it up to 8.1 or so, is that okay? Is that too big of a change for the fish? The thing is, it comes out at 7.8 then drops down to around 6.5 without the rocks, so I have no idea when it jumps up to 8.1, whether it's right away or whether it's going up and down and up and down every time I do a water change. Should I just remove the rocks? Since they are calcerous, should I be checking for calcium levels? This tank is practically empty of fish now cuz so many have died and I don't know what to do to make sure that it is safe to start adding more fish. (btw, I'm definitly not doing discus as long as I'm having these crazy water issues). What do I do? Try again, maybe with a long drip acclimation?
Since the water comes out of the tap at 7.8 and then the rocks apparently bump it up to 8.1 or so, is that okay? Is that too big of a change for the fish? The thing is, it comes out at 7.8 then drops down to around 6.5 without the rocks, so I have no idea when it jumps up to 8.1, whether it's right away or whether it's going up and down and up and down every time I do a water change. Should I just remove the rocks? Since they are calcerous, should I be checking for calcium levels? This tank is practically empty of fish now cuz so many have died and I don't know what to do to make sure that it is safe to start adding more fish. (btw, I'm definitly not doing discus as long as I'm having these crazy water issues). What do I do? Try again, maybe with a long drip acclimation?
Two issues to address - first up is your Ph.
Most Tetras are sensitive to Ph changes, and everytime you do a water change they are going to be in trouble. You need stability in there, and for these fish a low Ph is better than a high one - (6.2 was fine). As long as the introduction of your tap water at 7.8 is done slowly, the tank probably wont go much over half a degree higher during a 20% change, which the fish should be ok with if it’s done gently.
As that rock and the shells are making your Ph move around - get rid of them. Let the tank settle at 6.2 if that’s what it does - the Tetras will be fine. And next time you buy fish - ask the shop what their Ph is - and introduce the new fish gently if there’s a difference of over half a point.
Getting your Ph stable is as important as what it settles at - but like I said - lower is better for Tetras - so the rock and shells go.
Algae ..... gotta love it - lol. Two things make algae grow - light and food. Green algae is usualy the result of too much sunlight hitting the tank - and it’s green because it feeds off the sunlight just like any other plant. Brown algae is more common in a tank where there is too much food in the water - dissolved food you can’t see with the naked eye. So - as you have brown algae - cut down on the feeding and keep the tank clean.
With regard to cleaning that tank of yours the set-up is a nightmare. The gravel will hold food - all the nooks and crevices around and between the rocks - the folds of the leaves on those plants ....... it’s just one big food trap.
As you’re getting rid of the rocks, lets concentrate on the rest of the tank. Gravel can be cleaned yes, but by its nature it has so many places a food particle can drop into, you’ll never win the battle. You could try using sand, or go bare bottom - either of which will see a marked reduction in uneaten food retention. Leave enough space inbetween ornaments and plants to get your cleaning suction device (or whatever you use) in there. Try to eliminate “no-go” areas.
The plants are easier - once a month take them out of the tank completely, and wash them off in clean water using a brush. There’s no way you’ll stop that type of plastic plant from accumulating detritus, so accept you have to deal with it properly.
Yes - your water is killing your fish - but it’s doing so for predictable reasons - and it’s not whats coming out of the tap that’s doing it - it’s the tank set-up.
Time for a re-design in there ...........
Most Tetras are sensitive to Ph changes, and everytime you do a water change they are going to be in trouble. You need stability in there, and for these fish a low Ph is better than a high one - (6.2 was fine). As long as the introduction of your tap water at 7.8 is done slowly, the tank probably wont go much over half a degree higher during a 20% change, which the fish should be ok with if it’s done gently.
As that rock and the shells are making your Ph move around - get rid of them. Let the tank settle at 6.2 if that’s what it does - the Tetras will be fine. And next time you buy fish - ask the shop what their Ph is - and introduce the new fish gently if there’s a difference of over half a point.
Getting your Ph stable is as important as what it settles at - but like I said - lower is better for Tetras - so the rock and shells go.
Algae ..... gotta love it - lol. Two things make algae grow - light and food. Green algae is usualy the result of too much sunlight hitting the tank - and it’s green because it feeds off the sunlight just like any other plant. Brown algae is more common in a tank where there is too much food in the water - dissolved food you can’t see with the naked eye. So - as you have brown algae - cut down on the feeding and keep the tank clean.
With regard to cleaning that tank of yours the set-up is a nightmare. The gravel will hold food - all the nooks and crevices around and between the rocks - the folds of the leaves on those plants ....... it’s just one big food trap.
As you’re getting rid of the rocks, lets concentrate on the rest of the tank. Gravel can be cleaned yes, but by its nature it has so many places a food particle can drop into, you’ll never win the battle. You could try using sand, or go bare bottom - either of which will see a marked reduction in uneaten food retention. Leave enough space inbetween ornaments and plants to get your cleaning suction device (or whatever you use) in there. Try to eliminate “no-go” areas.
The plants are easier - once a month take them out of the tank completely, and wash them off in clean water using a brush. There’s no way you’ll stop that type of plastic plant from accumulating detritus, so accept you have to deal with it properly.
Yes - your water is killing your fish - but it’s doing so for predictable reasons - and it’s not whats coming out of the tap that’s doing it - it’s the tank set-up.
Time for a re-design in there ...........
Purple...So are you saying that the 7.8 tap dropping to 6.2 is better than raising to 8.1? I think I have to disagree with taking the rock out *if* that's what's causing the pH to rise. Going up .3 is a much smaller swing than dropping -1.6. The idea is to keep the pH as stable as you can, doing small water changes shouldn't make a big impact anyway.
usacutie, leaving the group, hiding and erradic swimming are symptoms of something. The disease forum isn't just for researching diseases, you need to look at poisons and toxins as well. The term 'disease' forum is just used generically for fish 'problems'.
I think I have to disagree with taking the rock out *if* that's what's causing the pH to rise. Going up .3 is a much smaller swing than dropping -1.6. The idea is to keep the pH as stable as you can, doing small water changes shouldn't make a big impact anyway.usacutie, leaving the group, hiding and erradic swimming are symptoms of something. The disease forum isn't just for researching diseases, you need to look at poisons and toxins as well. The term 'disease' forum is just used generically for fish 'problems'.
It has something to do with kh and gh. Here's a website that describes it much better than I can: Aquarium Chemistry, pH, gH, and kH relationship
Ah, I see...her water has a low buffering capacity.
Having always had relatively hard water, I've (fortunately) never had to deal with this phenomenon. The article you linked to explains it quite well, SANND, and it also provides some sound insights on how to deal with it. Thanks for the link!
Big Vine
Having always had relatively hard water, I've (fortunately) never had to deal with this phenomenon. The article you linked to explains it quite well, SANND, and it also provides some sound insights on how to deal with it. Thanks for the link!
Big Vine
SANND said:
Purple...So are you saying that the 7.8 tap dropping to 6.2 is better than raising to 8.1? I think I have to disagree with taking the rock out *if* that's what's causing the pH to rise. Going up .3 is a much smaller swing than dropping -1.6. The idea is to keep the pH as stable as you can, doing small water changes shouldn't make a big impact anyway.
I think I have to disagree with taking the rock out *if* that's what's causing the pH to rise. Going up .3 is a much smaller swing than dropping -1.6. The idea is to keep the pH as stable as you can, doing small water changes shouldn't make a big impact anyway.