why do the keep dying?!?!?!?
- Thread starter usacutie81
- Start date
Absolutely... The best option would be to take the shells and rocks out of the tank, and let your water sit overnight before adding it to the tank (the fact that your water is so soft does change my advice somewhat...).
Letting it sit overnight isn't that big a deal, but it couldn't hurt. As Purple pointed out, because pH is a log based around 7.0, the shift from 7.8 to 6.2 is about the same as the shift from 7.8 to 8.1.
Letting it sit overnight isn't that big a deal, but it couldn't hurt. As Purple pointed out, because pH is a log based around 7.0, the shift from 7.8 to 6.2 is about the same as the shift from 7.8 to 8.1.
SANND
Fair point yerself - but there are measured ways to up the KH if needed - but you can’t “measure” a rock (unless you chip bits off and monitor the results). I figure it’s best to deal with as few variables as possible - and that rock sounds like a contributory factor. As for having half the gulf of Mexico in the substrate - let’s not go there (PLEASE!!!!).
Assuming the other tanks are not suffering from this syndrome - I’m going to stick to my earlier advice - rip the lot out apart from the plants, and re-design the tank with a different substrate and without those rocks.
I’m no minerologist - but I have a feeling that to try to deal with that tank in its present guise I’d end up becoming one ...........
Fair point yerself - but there are measured ways to up the KH if needed - but you can’t “measure” a rock (unless you chip bits off and monitor the results). I figure it’s best to deal with as few variables as possible - and that rock sounds like a contributory factor. As for having half the gulf of Mexico in the substrate - let’s not go there (PLEASE!!!!).
Assuming the other tanks are not suffering from this syndrome - I’m going to stick to my earlier advice - rip the lot out apart from the plants, and re-design the tank with a different substrate and without those rocks.
I’m no minerologist - but I have a feeling that to try to deal with that tank in its present guise I’d end up becoming one ...........
I think it's just a matter of what you're comfortable with jwright. Having lost an entire tank to an apparent pH crash, I now feel more comfortable keeping it a bit higher because I *feel* like I can control it a little better than just letting it do it's thing.
My tap is 8.2 and left alone in a tank with nothing but natural river rocks and plants, my pH drops to the low 6's within just a couple days. When it fell all the way to 3 something (within a week after wc), I lost all my fish
I now have a healthy balance of wood and rocks and even C02 in one of the tanks and the pH hovers around 7.3 before and after water changes.
My tap is 8.2 and left alone in a tank with nothing but natural river rocks and plants, my pH drops to the low 6's within just a couple days. When it fell all the way to 3 something (within a week after wc), I lost all my fish
I now have a healthy balance of wood and rocks and even C02 in one of the tanks and the pH hovers around 7.3 before and after water changes.
Okay, sorry I haven't been around in a while guys, working like crazy. First, let me emphasize that my water comes out of the tap at 7.5 and then settles to around 6.8 normally. For some reason something in the tank then brings it up to 8.1. These massive swings, we assume, are what is killing the fish?
I am 100% okay with pulling out those stupid rocks, they are covered with algae and I was always suspicious of them anyway. The plants are all far enough apart that my gravel vac fits in between them, I did that purposely. I use a smaller vac which takes longer but seems to work better in the nooks and crannies. If I still need to change the aquascaping, however, I'm willing to do it.
Do I really need to take the gravel out? Like I said, it's very old and has been used (not in my tank) for many many years, plus it would be a freaking pain in the butt to remove it. However, my husband LOOOVES the look of sand and would be ecstatic if he came home to find sand instead of gravel. My only worry with sand is the ease (or lack thereof) of cleaning.
I am 100% okay with pulling out those stupid rocks, they are covered with algae and I was always suspicious of them anyway. The plants are all far enough apart that my gravel vac fits in between them, I did that purposely. I use a smaller vac which takes longer but seems to work better in the nooks and crannies. If I still need to change the aquascaping, however, I'm willing to do it.
Do I really need to take the gravel out? Like I said, it's very old and has been used (not in my tank) for many many years, plus it would be a freaking pain in the butt to remove it. However, my husband LOOOVES the look of sand and would be ecstatic if he came home to find sand instead of gravel. My only worry with sand is the ease (or lack thereof) of cleaning.
Definately take the rocks out if you think they're causing problems. Maybe leave the sand for a bit and see how it affects the tank parameters. If you do decide to switch to sand, it's not really all that difficult to take care of. I have lots of plants and a few MTS to keep the sand moving and I use a dowle (not sure how that's spelled) to poke at the sand when I see gray areas.
I do humbly apologize for saying algae would become toxic. I went off in a variety of thoughts and then back spaced, because it was long and my space bar and "c" key seem to be stuck together so everytime i type a word with c in it i have an extra space or when I hit my space bar I get the letter c LOL
Shortend version:
nitrates would become toxic in couple of weeks possibly, not enough fish cfor that....algae outbreak like that in couple of weeks? algae needs nitrates or phosphates and light.....either tank isn't being cleaned well or rocks when mixing with phosphorous in water is making like a calcium phosphate (not even sure this is accurate, I'd have to ask my 11 y.o., he knows everything about rocks and will talk for an hour non-stop if you ask a question about them) and a vague thought are you using a water softener (I went with the rock theory as you seem to know what you are doing and are suspicious of them anyway)
my next thought was your other tanks and the angel (i don't see angels as fragile as everyone else)dieing, I'm not entirly convinced it's all about ph or rock poisoning. You seem to keep oto's alive and other fish alive with a ph swing of your tap water. So, it could be possibly a bacterial infection or internal parasite (neither would give an direct symptoms like ich), but start with the obvious of possible water conditions caused by the rocks(and shells) as that is the main difference between the 75gal and 30gal. Possibly a solution might be to get rid of the fry, put the cardinals in that for a couple of weeks to monitor, then move them when they are healthier to the 75gal, at least if they die in your 30gal you can eliminate the theory of water conditions in 75gal and move forward to cussing out the manager at the lfs for keeping fish in such crappy conditions that they die within a 2 week period
again, I apologize, algae is not toxic (I didn't back space and combine a bunch of sentences in one this time) that was almost as intelligent as saying fish couldn't live in water *laughingc (my cleaning the algae off everything, was simply because i think algae makes the tank look messy...personal opinion tho)
Shortend version:
nitrates would become toxic in couple of weeks possibly, not enough fish cfor that....algae outbreak like that in couple of weeks? algae needs nitrates or phosphates and light.....either tank isn't being cleaned well or rocks when mixing with phosphorous in water is making like a calcium phosphate (not even sure this is accurate, I'd have to ask my 11 y.o., he knows everything about rocks and will talk for an hour non-stop if you ask a question about them) and a vague thought are you using a water softener (I went with the rock theory as you seem to know what you are doing and are suspicious of them anyway)
my next thought was your other tanks and the angel (i don't see angels as fragile as everyone else)dieing, I'm not entirly convinced it's all about ph or rock poisoning. You seem to keep oto's alive and other fish alive with a ph swing of your tap water. So, it could be possibly a bacterial infection or internal parasite (neither would give an direct symptoms like ich), but start with the obvious of possible water conditions caused by the rocks(and shells) as that is the main difference between the 75gal and 30gal. Possibly a solution might be to get rid of the fry, put the cardinals in that for a couple of weeks to monitor, then move them when they are healthier to the 75gal, at least if they die in your 30gal you can eliminate the theory of water conditions in 75gal and move forward to cussing out the manager at the lfs for keeping fish in such crappy conditions that they die within a 2 week period
again, I apologize, algae is not toxic (I didn't back space and combine a bunch of sentences in one this time) that was almost as intelligent as saying fish couldn't live in water *laughingc (my cleaning the algae off everything, was simply because i think algae makes the tank look messy...personal opinion tho)
Anyone else have any thoughts on whether it really is neccessary to remove that substrate that I'm using? Once again, it's been in aquarium use for more than 10 years and it would sure be a pain to remove it.
Also, have we established that it is almost definitly the PH swings that is killing my fish?
Also, have we established that it is almost definitly the PH swings that is killing my fish?
Okay, I picked up new rock today for my aquarium. The rock I originally had in mind was a sparkly white quartz-like rock. Beautiful. However it had a little fizz when I sprinkled a little vinegar on it (yes I brought vinegar to the fish store, I am NOT going to make that mistake again!) so I decided not to risk it. I went to another fish store across town and got more generic rock, white and brown with a marble-like affect, I'm sure you've seen it. Anyway, I don't like it as much but no fizzing and that's all I care about at this point. So I'll be removing all the old rock tomorrow and doing a water change and maybe try and scrub off a little of that algae. The lfs got in about a dozen baby discus a few weeks ago so I want this PH problem under control so I can get some, they are GORGEOUS!!!
Anyway, I'll be taking PH tests as I change the rocks and water and giving updates to let you guys know how it's coming. Feel free to give advice, I'm still trying to decide whether it's neccessary to switch to sand. Anyone got any ideas?
Anyway, I'll be taking PH tests as I change the rocks and water and giving updates to let you guys know how it's coming. Feel free to give advice, I'm still trying to decide whether it's neccessary to switch to sand. Anyone got any ideas?
Okay I checked the PH last night before I removed the rocks and it was at 8.5. Then I did a water change and pulled all the big rocks out and checked the water again, it was down to 8.2. I checked it a few minutes ago and it was still at 8.2. Could the algae be keeping the PH up? Or do I just need to give it more time and a few more water changes?
As much as you don't want to hear it, I would strongly recommend you remove the gravel as well. It's not the *aquarium* gravel that concerns me, it's the Gulf of Mexico variable. Having this added to your gravel adds a few problems -- is that particular gravel/sand reactive? Very possibly. Is that sand/gravel contaminated? Again, very possibly. Why worry about this? You're far better off biting the bullet and changing the substrate.
The rock you had in your tank looks like what is commonly referred to within the hobby as "lace rock" which will raise your pH. it's very popular with cichlid keepers.
The hair algae, aside from being an eyesore to some people, is no biggie. My friend had some that was everywhere but really kinda cool looking and kept her SAEs very, very happy. If you feed with TetraColor food, change your food -- I've seen this a few times with the use of this particular food.
The rock you had in your tank looks like what is commonly referred to within the hobby as "lace rock" which will raise your pH. it's very popular with cichlid keepers.
The hair algae, aside from being an eyesore to some people, is no biggie. My friend had some that was everywhere but really kinda cool looking and kept her SAEs very, very happy. If you feed with TetraColor food, change your food -- I've seen this a few times with the use of this particular food.
Ditch the substrate. If you want sand, use sand blasting grit or even playsand at Home Depot. If you got your current substrate at the beach, it contains a LOT of calcium. That's causing your pH to rise--this will continue to happen until you remove it. Calcium in the sand won't go away with water changes.
Secondly, your pH out of the tap once degassed, is lower--that is your true tap water pH--perfect for tetras.
Thirdly, your contant water changing is causing your massive outbreak of BBA (the black fuzzy algae). BBA is a carbon fixated algae, and fluctuations in CO2 levels (as evident by your fluctuating pH from tap to the next day after a water change) are signaling your BBA to reproduce. So, with proper stocking and a moderate level of easy real plants, you can effectively eliminate your need for water changes altogether.
So, I would completely redo the tank, changing the substrate and eliminating the BBA physically (with bleach or something, dechlor when done). Set it back up, and stop doing water changes all the time. With proper stock levels (lightly stocked) and light feedings, your tank can go quite some time without a water change. Use plants to remove nitrates (sword plants are easy plants and are nitrogen hogs). Do tiny water changes every month or so, just enough to remove debris from the substrate, or just get more mechanical filtration. Wha-la, cardinal bliss!
Secondly, your pH out of the tap once degassed, is lower--that is your true tap water pH--perfect for tetras.
Thirdly, your contant water changing is causing your massive outbreak of BBA (the black fuzzy algae). BBA is a carbon fixated algae, and fluctuations in CO2 levels (as evident by your fluctuating pH from tap to the next day after a water change) are signaling your BBA to reproduce. So, with proper stocking and a moderate level of easy real plants, you can effectively eliminate your need for water changes altogether.
So, I would completely redo the tank, changing the substrate and eliminating the BBA physically (with bleach or something, dechlor when done). Set it back up, and stop doing water changes all the time. With proper stock levels (lightly stocked) and light feedings, your tank can go quite some time without a water change. Use plants to remove nitrates (sword plants are easy plants and are nitrogen hogs). Do tiny water changes every month or so, just enough to remove debris from the substrate, or just get more mechanical filtration. Wha-la, cardinal bliss!
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sword plants and someother plants are easy and nitrogen hogs? is that what you meant to say? or.....
anyone help me with the other plant? been looking for something for my son's 10gal that doesn't have much light, I want a nitrogen hog, was thinking of java fern, but I have yet to find a start of that plant in a 30mile radius that doesn't look like it's dead, I've got a ton of starts to various sword plants but I don't think there's enough light (it's about 2watts per gal total i think LOL)
sorry, for the derail
(just to stay on topic, I'd do exactly what Avalon suggested)
anyone help me with the other plant? been looking for something for my son's 10gal that doesn't have much light, I want a nitrogen hog, was thinking of java fern, but I have yet to find a start of that plant in a 30mile radius that doesn't look like it's dead, I've got a ton of starts to various sword plants but I don't think there's enough light (it's about 2watts per gal total i think LOL)
sorry, for the derail
(just to stay on topic, I'd do exactly what Avalon suggested)